Hey I am 16 and I am putting out Lecture notes and a DVD...Cool huh?

[StreetMage]

Mozart was recognized as a musical genius around age four, and was composing things as early as age four or five.

Is this kind of knack for something common? No. Is it possible? Absolutely.

For the most part, I agree with Mr. Miller. I don't think individuals who do not have years of experience should be releasing things like lecture notes or lecturing other individuals.

Creating effects, on the other hand, is another matter. The reason I say this is because many of magic's creators are just that. . . creators. Many of them are not performers because they have neither the passion nor the knack for getting up in front of people and actually doing magic. If you have a creative brain and are able to innovate strong, new pieces of magic, even without having performed magic for ten plus years, to me that's valid. A good effect is a good effect, regardless of the age or experience level of the creator. Some people really are just gifted that way. It might take a performer to teach the effect to other performers, but that individual is still only teaching something that someone else created (examples that come to mind are things like Revolution, King Rising, and Kaos, which were not taught by the people that created them).

 

[joshua barrett]

im sorry but i think the effects you listed are only countering your point. there is SO much great stuff out there.... and there is even more usless mediocrity

anyone can "make" a effect. even more can create a variation of others ideas as you have listed, but few really create

 

[StreetMage]

im sorry but i think the effects you listed are only countering your point. there is SO much great stuff out there.... and there is even more usless mediocrity

anyone can "make" a effect. even more can create a variation of others ideas as you have listed, but few really create

I wasn't saying those examples were great. . . they were just the ones I could think of. My point was that a creator can create a piece of magic, but in order for it to be taught a performer is needed. In that scenario, as long as the magic created is actually good enough that someone will take it out, perform it, and get a good reaction, the age of the creator does not matter. It's still good magic.

And while I agree that Kaos and King Rising aren't that great, I really like Revolution and think that when pulled off well, it's a stellar vanish. I've literally caused people to scream and flee from me with Revolution. It's great for closing coin routines because it warrants no reproduction. . . you can literally just wink a coin right out of existence, and there's no reason to reproduce it because it's in neither hand. It really is gone forever. It's important to note, however, that Kevin Parker did not teach revolution. . . it's a good piece of magic, but it took an experienced performer and teacher (Brad Christian) to be able to teach it effectively in dvd format.

 

[conjure_pitch]

Isn't one of magics best qualities to bring all different social groups together, not segregate a whole group of people as being beneath.

Once again I will repeat (especially after reading this thread since I last posted.) that I agree with Justin for the most part. I am just, as Justin did, telling the truth.

 

[dananddave]

true.
the twins had mentors like chris kenner, lee asher, etc....
most kids dont have that kind of luxury.

The only mentor I've ever had is Ricky Smith.

Dave

 

[Huruey]

I, for one, could not believe what I was reading when I read Justin's initial post.

I agree that people should stop releasing things so eagerly when they have relatively only just started magic, but this doesn't just apply to the 11-21 age group, this should apply to everyone! If you are 29, and have been doing magic for only 2-3 years, chances are that anything you release will be complete rubbish. I think the reason the younger age group is sometimes targetted here is because it is the younger age group who overestimate their own experience and think they are ready to release things when they are not.

The argument here should not be that "Younger people should not release anything", no, the argument should be that "People with little experience (let's say less than 6-7 years) should not release anything".

It should not be to do with age, it should be to do with experience. Taking age to be the problem here is a misconception which has most likely spawned from the fact that it is younger people who release things when they do not have the experience. It's not that older people release better magic, it's that most older people realise that they are not experienced in magic enough to put something out, that is why we see the problem occurring more in the younger age group.

If somebody has been doing magic since the age of 8, and they are now 16, if they have something they have been doing for the past 5 years and would like to release it, what gives them any less right than the 30 year old guy whos been doing magic for 4 years and is releasing a DVD?

My thoughts.

Huruey

 

[omer_y]

For one thing I'd diss all those one-trick DVD's, I just don't like em. and for the second, I guess if someone young thinks he's really talented he could just send his stuff to a knowlageable person and get a professional opinion.
Seriously, is it "in" to be a young noob-ish magician? I mean I've been hearing such liessss from young amateurs. People saying they have been performing magic for ten years while they are only 16, and know absolutely nothing. The root of the problem is probably in the populization of the whole scene.

-Abraham Lincoln

 

[Dizzi]

Thanks for the essay. I feel bad about having an effect released soonish (Might not even be released...they bought the rights to sell it though) but luckily it's not going to be big, like expensive etc. (Only 10$ PDF) and it';s going to be released at 2dee magic.com Because of the deal, I can't do anything about it being released. but I'm not going to try and release anything soon. thanks for the article Justin.

 

[ace18]

THANK GOD.
Someone finally said this.
I can sleep now.

 

[rjohnson]

I have kind of held off on this thread, but I really do feel the need to chime in. I hope I am not gonna piss people off too much.

First off, Justin, you owe the young man an apology. There was no reason in the world, whatsoever, to mention his name. The only result of having done that was to embarrass the hell out of him. Having Danny back you up on this decision did not make it automatically correct. You gave him some mish mash of logic for having dragged his ego out in front of everyone, and he was kind enough to act like that was good enough...no.

Justin does have the right idea, but putting any age restriction on it was nonsense. There is no way to choose an age wherein people should not produce DVDs or lecture notes. It can be granted that most people younger than 21 have not had the experience to produce such products, but it is not true in all cases. In addition, there are numerous people that are older than 21 that have just gotten into magic that want to produce DVDs and lecture notes...are we to believe that these will be of much higher quality?

Justin, it would have sufficed to say, "Please do not feel you need to put out a DVD or lecture notes until you have the proper seasoning that consists of vast performing experience, constructive criticism from your peers, and someone with the background to properly produce your product.

Sorry if that was harsh, but I think the genesis of this was out of line.

RJ

 

[illusioleopard]

That's ok..I am not trying to make friends here but to tell the truth.

Justin N. Miller

i want to be friends with justin miller

 

[Huruey]

Justin does have the right idea, but putting any age restriction on it was nonsense. There is no way to choose an age wherein people should not produce DVDs or lecture notes...

Exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks RJ!

Huruey

 

[DannyT]

Bottom line is this... I do not care how long you have been in magic, how much "passion" you have for the art, how many times you have fooled you family with your amazing ability to force a card, if you are between the ages of 11-21 you have no authority in putting out lecture notes or a DVD for any reason whatsoever.

Justin N. Miller

You are WAY out of line!
I'm glad that this is just an opinion, rather than a fact.

I have kind of held off on this thread, but I really do feel the need to chime in. I hope I am not gonna piss people off too much.

Justin does have the right idea, but putting any age restriction on it was nonsense. There is no way to choose an age wherein people should not produce DVDs or lecture notes. It can be granted that most people younger than 21 have not had the experience to produce such products, but it is not true in all cases. In addition, there are numerous people that are older than 21 that have just gotten into magic that want to produce DVDs and lecture notes...are we to believe that these will be of much higher quality?

Justin, it would have sufficed to say, "Please do not feel you need to put out a DVD or lecture notes until you have the proper seasoning that consists of vast performing experience, constructive criticism from your peers, and someone with the background to properly produce your product.

Sorry if that was harsh, but I think the genesis of this was out of line.

RJ

First off:
RJ's my hero.

Who is Miller to call the shots?

What if a kid has made an awesome gimmick for levitating and practice it for years and is only 18. He's not allowed to put it on the market because he's too young?
Then some Joe Shmo that's 35 sells that idea to a company because he only thought of it, instead of practicing to perform it perfectly. All he cares about is the money, when the 18 year old wanted to make it his effect and make a DVD with him teaching it instead of just selling the idea.

Unless you just want all kids to just sell their ideas to a company, so professional magicians can take the credit for teaching the method and earn some cash off of another person's effect.

Is that fair Miller?

 

[CoryOOreo]

Justin,

Honestly, do you think you have a right to say something like that? We're all people here, and just because YOU have released material... that doesn't mean you can tell us not to. You have made a completly unfair stereotype about youth when the reality is... WE are the future of magic.

Deal with it.

 

[The Royal JRA]

And for you to say you might NEVER come out with something..dude shush!






Yeah You have wait till your 22..and if your between the height of 4ft 2 and 5ft 7 you have no right realesing a dvd and or notes and if your between the weight of 98lbs to 158lbs you have no right either, you have to be at least 5ft 8 and 159lbs to realese a dvd and lecture notes

 

[Dizzi]

JRA. that was REALLY rude. Justin is talking about averages etc. But For me. I NEVER say I invented something. unless I get five people to tell me it's original (At LEAST one known in the magic community) Otherwise, I say that I 'Came up with it'

 

[tbbbking22]

Justin,

I understand what you are saying, about people not putting forth the effort and just releasing some recycled trick at a young age. I agree it is usually bad but you cannot put an age limit on who can do this and who can't. You said the Buck twins were the exception, but couldn't other people under 21 have had just as much expirence and just as much hardhitting material as the Bucks? Not likely, but people can do it. Do no exclude everyone 21 and under from creation and selling, because many have created amazingly new and great effects

 

[Stein]

The only mentor I've ever had is Ricky Smith.

Dave

*Only*... Haha... =D

 

[Close-Up Expert]

You have made a completly unfair stereotype about youth when the reality is... WE are the future of magic.

Deal with it.

And I'm tired of hearing that BS too. People say WE are the future of magic...so what. That doesn't give anyone a right to anything. Plain and simple. And I still agree with Justin for the most part. The magicians that are young and do put out good material (Josh Jay) are the exceptions, not the rule.

Like I've already said...there is a time and place for everything. Right now, the time is to learn, learn, and learn some more. No publishing material, no dvds, etc. NOTHING! JUST LEARN! Then eventually when you're over the hill, you MIGHT be able to publish some decent stuff.

Best.
Steve

 

[Ben Long]

A lot of people seem pissed about the age thing.

Let me say this. You don't have to be old to innovate, in fact most innovators reach their peak in their twenties.

However, when it comes to knowing how to perform, how to handle other people--the audience--how to maintian a level of professionality when performing, the level of maturity required is simply not present in teens. There is scientific evidence to support the fact that the teenage brain is simply not fully developed to the level of an adult's. Obviously there are a few very rare exceptions, but that doesn't change the fact that while teens can have the moves and the ideas, they will never be as good as they could be when they are developmentally more aware of other people and how to handle them. Because in magic, that's what you do. Handle other people. No people, no magic.