Hey I am 16 and I am putting out Lecture notes and a DVD...Cool huh?

[DannyT]

By Justin

You do not even know what your talking about?
Do you know how old Nick V is?
No

Do you know HOW LONG he has been perfroming in the trenches?
No..

mmmm, think, think ,think, before you speak ,speak, speak!

Well Nick V is 17 or 18 and Matt is 19. Yet your teaching their material. So yes, you do support young kids selling their ideas so magicians like you can make a quick buck for it.

Sounds like I know what I'm talking about.

Plus your a magician for E. They encourage young magicians to create new effects and maybe sell them. That's why they have a submit a trick link at the bottom of their website. Same for Theory 11.

I haven't seen 1 person from Theory 11 back you up on your statement. Hmmm, I wonder why. Maybe because it's too stereotyped? How the hell do you know how much practice/effort we put into our magic? By how long were living for?

 

[cklam]

Well Nick V is 17 or 18 and Matt is 19. Yet your teaching their material. So yes, you do support young kids selling their ideas so magicians like you can make a quick buck for it.

Sounds like I know what I'm talking about.

Plus your a magician for E. They encourage young magicians to create new effects and maybe sell them. That's why they have a submit a trick link at the bottom of their website. Same for Theory 11.

I haven't seen 1 person from Theory 11 back you up on your statement. Hmmm, I wonder why. Maybe because it's too stereotyped? How the hell do you know how much practice/effort we put into our magic? By how long were living for?

Did Ellusionist release all the tricks that has been submitted?

Answer is obviously, no, (wait, a big NO).

Yes, they encourage young magicians to create new effects and
yes young people put alot of efforts into magic;

BUT how about put an EXTRA effort to do some researches on whether what they have created are indeed original/new?

The reason why T11 staff don't comment on this, is, I presume, they don't want to offend anyone (whether if it's Justin or the young magicians who are against Justing). This does not prove that Justin is wrong anyway.

 

[The Dark Angel]

I don't see the need or reason to be attacking Justin.

 

[DannyT]

Did Ellusionist release all the tricks that has been submitted?

Answer is obviously, no, (wait, a big NO).

Yes, they encourage young magicians to create new effects and
yes young people put alot of efforts into magic;

BUT how about put an EXTRA effort to do some researches on whether what they have created are indeed original/new?

The reason why T11 staff don't comment on this, is, I presume, they don't want to offend anyone (whether if it's Justin or the young magicians who are against Justing). This does not prove that Justin is wrong anyway.

Guys, I don't want to hear from you protecting Justin, I want him to answer for himself. He's a big boy.

So what If E doesn't except all the tricks that people submit. They might not be all good. Is that a problem for you? Do you check out the videos that were submitted? Are you wasting your time? No. It's not your job. Some of these kids think they have what it takes, so that's why they submit the trick.
Who is Justin to say they don't.
I think he doesn't like the competition. People might buy the kids tricks rather than his tricks.

You might be right about the T11 staff not commenting on this, but it's not for sure.


Edited: You know what, I'm glad they didn't comment on this because they would pull one these well he's right but your right stuff. I don't think anyone of them would be on anyone's side.

 

[remy]

You know who's allowed to have lecture notes? Ricky Jay. If you're not Ricky Jay and you're not dead, then you may not have lecture notes.

Ricky Jay deserves more props than he's given, even in the event that he gets all the props in the world.

Ricky Jay IS the Chuck Norris of Magic.

i agree completely except for your last statement. chuck norris is the chuck norris of magic silly goose.

 

[-Ty]

Guys, I don't want to hear from you protecting Justin, I want him to answer for himself. He's a big boy.

So what If E doesn't except all the tricks that people submit. They might not be all good. Is that a problem for you? Do you check out the videos that were submitted? Are you wasting your time? No. It's not your job. Some of these kids think they have what it takes, so that's why they submit the trick.
Who is Justin to say they don't.
I think he doesn't like the competition. People might buy the kids tricks rather than his tricks.

You might be right about the T11 staff not commenting on this, but it's not for sure.

The idiocy that surrounds this place is astonishing...

Ye's he's a big boy, but other people are also allowed to comment on anything they want. Is that ok mommy?

The problem is that these kids think that if they submit a trick they can make money, or be famous. When they don't submit a trick, and instead produce it themselves, that's even worse, which is what Justin is talking about.

Justin is an internationally acclaimed magician, winner of several awards, is repsected by his peers (most of em anyway) has several smash hit DVD's and has lectured 100's of times on subjects that he has been told he has excelled in, and he is known for. That's why Justin can say they're not.

The notion that he is trying to warn against this for risk of "competition" (HA) from some of these kids is an absolute joke. That's how a child thinks, and an immature one at that. He is trying to help this craft, and steer it clear of the growing trend of making %&#$HOUSE magic for the fame and money, or for the respect of their peers.

Ty

 

[cklam]

Guys, I don't want to hear from you protecting Justin, I want him to answer for himself. He's a big boy.

So what If E doesn't except all the tricks that people submit. They might not be all good. Is that a problem for you? Do you check out the videos that were submitted? Are you wasting your time? No. It's not your job. Some of these kids think they have what it takes, so that's why they submit the trick.
Who is Justin to say they don't.
I think he doesn't like the competition. People might buy the kids tricks rather than his tricks.

You might be right about the T11 staff not commenting on this, but it's not for sure.

That sounds pretty harsh. Chill out, dude.

If you think that you are not wasting your time in proving that Justin was wrong; I should say that I'm not wasting my time to prove that what he said was right. I should emphasize that I'm not "protecting Justin" but rather I think that what that man said sounds right to me.

If one doesn't want to hear anybody saying things that are not favorable to what he/she think, maybe one just hide and never come out of his little shelter.

 

[rjohnson]

No RJ I do not owe Calvin an apology for any reason. Further, for you to make a judgment on WHY I said it without knowing my heart is totally ignorant on your part. It was not to embaress Calvin..not in the least.

Justin...I guess I am one of those people in your life that exists to hold you accountable...why else do we keep crossing swords? I do not need to know your heart in this matter. What you did was out of line regardless of your motives. If we absolutely feel the need to use the word "ignorant", then I would apply it to your ignorant use of his name when there was nothing, whatsoever, period, to be gained by it. Did calling him out by name help to teach him a point?

And no it was not out of line it was the truth spoken in love and concern nothing less. So if you want to try and argue with me on THAT matter go ahead you have already lost becuase you do not know my heart in this matter.

OK, I will go ahead and argue that point that I have already lost. Many people do things out of love and concern that are destructive to the people they think they are helping. It happens all the time and I see it in the ER every night. I would never say that you were not concerned for him, or trying to do the right thing...but I am saying it did not have the effect that you wanted it to.

Truth is I have planned this post for a long-time..the MAGIC review just put he last ember on the wood for me.

Justin N. Miller

I have no idea how that last statement is supposed to buttress that argument? Why do you plan to do things "for a long time". If you saw a problem early on, why not handle it while it was easily manageable? You did not need some review to motivate you, or validate you. Justin, I am sorry, but you may have had the right intentions, but you simply had the wrong approach to it.

You do owe him an apology, and yes, I can waste my breath telling you what to do just like I did with your not getting product out to people...sometimes even you have to be held accountable.

RJ

 

[DannyT]

The idiocy that surrounds this place is astonishing...

Ye's he's a big boy, but other people are also allowed to comment on anything they want. Is that ok mommy?Ty

Hey your pretty mature yourself. You spelled "Yes" wrong.

The problem is that these kids think that if they submit a trick they can make money, or be famous.

Ty

It's funny how the disease of stereotyping spreads so fast.
Maybe they want to put out a great effect that they've been practicing for awhile. That's what I always wanted to do. It's never about the money with me.

Do you have a job as a magician?
When you were little, did you ever want to be a magician?
If so, have you ever thought about the money you would be making or the cool effects you would be doing. I'm guessing no, and if you only cared about the money then your in the wrong business.

 

[-Ty]

Hey your pretty mature yourself. If I was your mom, you'd be put up for adoption.



It's funny how the disease of stereotyping spreads so fast.
Maybe they want to put out a great effect that they've been practicing for awhile. That's what I always wanted to do. It's never about the money with me.

Do you have a job as a magician?
When you were little, did you ever want to be a magician?
If so, have you ever thought about the money you would be making or the cool effects you would be doing. I'm guessing no, and if you only cared about the money then your in the wrong business.

The disease of stereotyping? Care to elaborate? If you're worried about me using the word "kids" then PM me, and I'll give you soem examples of bad effects doen by... kids!

The problem is, this effect that they have been practicing for a while, is by and large either A) already done B) needs work C) will be badly produced. When these products come out on the market, half-done, not researched or not properly and thoroughly worked on, they clutter and muddy the waters of other fine effects. The other reason is that they're doing this for the fame and glory, which then becomes a whole different and worse problem.

As I am going through school, I'm not employed full-time as a magician, but have worked for private parties and social gatherings. I have wanted to and have been involved in magic since I was 5 (on and off). And no, when I was little I never thought aboout the money. Even now, I know that I probably won't ever be rich or famous from this craft. And no, I don't care about the money. I love doing magic, and wouldn't do it if I didn't.

I'm sorry but what were you trying to prove with that last paragraph?

Ty

 

[DannyT]

As I am going through school, I'm not employed full-time as a magician, but have worked for private parties and social gatherings. I have wanted to and have been involved in magic since I was 5 (on and off). And no, when I was little I never thought aboout the money. Even now, I know that I probably won't ever be rich or famous from this craft. And no, I don't care about the money. I love doing magic, and wouldn't do it if I didn't.

I'm sorry but what were you trying to prove with that last paragraph?

Ty

The problem is that these kids think that if they submit a trick they can make money, or be famous.
Ty

My point exactly. These kids want to just make a great effect. Their kids just like you and me who don't care about the money. Because if you can put out at least one great effect, than being a magician has paid off. The fact that new magicians and old magicians will be learning from you is reward enough.

 

[Justin Miller]

But Miller, you cannot attack a problem, but then become part of the core reasons for that problem. By joining "E" and endorsing, advertising and selling products you have proved that you are worse than the magicians you dislike for feeding them the very capatalist fuel to become annoying, fame seaking individuals.

Joe.

Joe..lol
get your facts straight i am no longer with E and have not been for close to 2 yrs now.. I diid see the problem hence me saying good-bye to E.

I do everything now through Kozmo magic and my own production company.
Justin N. Miller

E was good to me and I will not talk bad about them like many of us they had a rough spot but they to took a beating and came back from it.

 

[Goudinov]

I don't think there's a reason to make a big deal out of this. If someome... anyone... regardless of age releases sub-standard material, it's not going to sell well. Yes, there will be buyers that wasted their money, but I guarantee you those buyers aren't going to be quiet about it.

Once someone gets bad reviews and poor sales from their efforts, it will probably hurt their ego enough for them to either give up entirely or strengthen their resolve to learn what they did wrong and get back to it so that they can release better quality material.

We live and learn, and it just so happens that nowadays, with technology being so accessible for so relatively little, it is easy to produce a semi-professional, or even outright professional notes or DVD.

These things usually work themselves out.

 

[Justin Miller]

Justin...I guess I am one of those people in your life that exists to hold you accountable...why else do we keep crossing swords? I do not need to know your heart in this matter. What you did was out of line regardless of your motives. If we absolutely feel the need to use the word "ignorant", then I would apply it to your ignorant use of his name when there was nothing, whatsoever, period, to be gained by it. Did calling him out by name help to teach him a point?



OK, I will go ahead and argue that point that I have already lost. Many people do things out of love and concern that are destructive to the people they think they are helping. It happens all the time and I see it in the ER every night. I would never say that you were not concerned for him, or trying to do the right thing...but I am saying it did not have the effect that you wanted it to.



I have no idea how that last statement is supposed to buttress that argument? Why do you plan to do things "for a long time". If you saw a problem early on, why not handle it while it was easily manageable? You did not need some review to motivate you, or validate you. Justin, I am sorry, but you may have had the right intentions, but you simply had the wrong approach to it.

You do owe him an apology, and yes, I can waste my breath telling you what to do just like I did with your not getting product out to people...sometimes even you have to be held accountable.

RJ

RJ,
lol man this keeps getting better and better.
I will say this I HAVE taken care of my customers and gone above and beyond for them if I have done anything wrong with orders..cheap shots dear sir cheap shots.

You said your side i disagree..lets leave it at that.

 

[dasuprememep]

I'm actually a bit angry with the way that you blame kids for making uninteresting DVD's. So, what about all these adults who put up DVD's recycling stuff made up before? It happens with everyone, even you adults.

 

[conjure_pitch]

Although I agree with Justin Miller for the most part, I still lose alot of respect for him in this thread. If not for the way he presented his ideas, then for the lack of information to back them up.

Yes most young kids jump into release way too early, but there are a lot of dip**** adults that release effects early as well.

There is NO age limit on this. An experience limit, yes. (The reason I agree is that usually at a young age, not alot of experience has been able to accumulate. Despite that, the age bracket is a total stereotype)

Trent

 

[Justin Miller]

I'm actually a bit angry with the way that you blame kids for making uninteresting DVD's. So, what about all these adults who put up DVD's recycling stuff made up before? It happens with everyone, even you adults.

Yes you are right it DOES happen with adults, but THAT is not the problem I am addressing right now. The problem I am talking about is one of a NEED to put out unresearched, unoriginal material by some very young kids and then say "hey I got some lecture notes of my original work here for sale"

THAT is the problem!

Justin N. Miller

 

[rjohnson]

..cheap shots dear sir cheap shots.

You said your side i disagree..lets leave it at that.

ummm, almost ready to leave it alone. You say it was a cheap shot to mention your history, and I really did not go into any depth...but it is true history. You call that a cheap shot, yet in another thread you say you "left" E two years ago because of what was going on...little hypocrisy there. I just think it would be nice if you did not make general or blanket statements about a company that helped you quite nicely. You made your own bed.

Justin, don't wanna fight with you...but I also won't sit still when you make statements that I know you really do not want to have to try and back up.

OK, now I will try to leave it alone.

RJ

 

[Justin Miller]

Although I agree with Justin Miller for the most part, I still lose alot of respect for him in this thread. If not for the way he presented his ideas, then for the lack of information to back them up.

Yes most young kids jump into release way too early, but there are a lot of dip**** adults that release effects early as well.

There is NO age limit on this. An experience limit, yes. (The reason I agree is that usually at a young age, not alot of experience has been able to accumulate. Despite that, the age bracket is a total stereotype)

Trent

How have I not backed up what I am saying..go to ANY forum and my facts will stare you in the face.

YES there is an age limit on this this and you have proven it by your statement above...The reason I agree is that usually at a young age, not alot of experience has been able to accumulate. EXACTLY!

Justin N. Miller
I hope and pray many of you young guys get mad and angry at what I am saying because (can I tell you a secret) that means it worked!

 

[conjure_pitch]

Yes you are right it DOES happen with adults, but THAT is not the problem I am addressing right now. The problem I am talking about is one of a NEED to put out unresearched, unoriginal material by some very young kids and then say "hey I got some lecture notes of my original work here for sale"

THAT is the problem!

Justin N. Miller

You're right, but its not a problem with ONLY kids. That's what everyone else is getting at.