In Search of Street Magic By: Jamy Ian Swiss
- Thread starter TKH
- Start date
Theory11 pulled a very good selling product because they found out iti was published before. Theres a difference.
Theory11 doesn't sell a tenkai palm for $13.
Theory11 artists have a lot more people that have more expierence. No offense to E. I'm a fan of Danny G and Justin Miller.
Theory11 has a more laid back forum.
Steerpike- Why would I want to own How to Do Street Magic? Everything in the Dvd is included in Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic and The Royal Road. Brad is selling all of his Dvd's for too freakin much. pretty much everything in that Dvd could be found in the 2 books I named and a lot more.
Please tell me you bought The Royal Road before Brad's Dvds. Also before you buy Brad's dvds please look into older material put out by more respectable magicians.
And I'm not talking about every kid. You've really never heard of someone thinking they could go and randomely ask people to show them a trick? I've heard of lots.
And what Ellusionist DVD does that?
No offense, but you're still taking the shot anyway. You people have even less class than me.
Kind of works against them, actually. You can get away with way too much here.
Apparently you skipped class when they told you what a rhetorical question was.
You want me to lie? When I was first starting out, I bought DVDs because I learn better from them. I didn't even know most of these books existed back then.
Not that I expect you to understand that. You've obviously forgotten what it was like to be a newbie.
Strawman at 12 o'clock.
I guarantee you made that mistake same as I did when you first started out. Cyril admits to having done it when he was a kid. It's a lesson to learn, not a point of shame. But you people have jammed your heads so far up your asses you forgot about that.
Chatmaster and Steve,
It is nice to see that Jamy Ian Swill's garbage still makes the rounds. It gets trotted out when some people want to try to trash Ellusionist. Nice to see he can do your thinking for you, but there is a reason the word "liar" is in the title of his column. However, I really don't care about his article any more than I care what he ate for dinner, or how fast it ran through his system.
Which of you has actually created a magic effect, or actually performs for anyone other than your little sisters? (OK, Steve performs at Red Robin, but i have no idea about chatmaster) I mean, come on. Sean performs, is on the road right now, interning with Brock Gill, and has several effects in the creation stage that are wonderful. Cheap shots you two are taking.
Tell you what, next June you hunt up this thread and tell me if you can believe what you have written. The face of magic is changing, and E is at the forefront...some really cool things going on and we don't need Swill's skill with words (his main skill) to tell us we lead the pack.
By the way, I thought this was the epicenter of a magicians community that was created to unite magicians...why does so much tearing down go on here?
RJ
It is nice to see that Jamy Ian Swill's garbage still makes the rounds. It gets trotted out when some people want to try to trash Ellusionist. Nice to see he can do your thinking for you, but there is a reason the word "liar" is in the title of his column. However, I really don't care about his article any more than I care what he ate for dinner, or how fast it ran through his system.
Which of you has actually created a magic effect, or actually performs for anyone other than your little sisters? (OK, Steve performs at Red Robin, but i have no idea about chatmaster) I mean, come on. Sean performs, is on the road right now, interning with Brock Gill, and has several effects in the creation stage that are wonderful. Cheap shots you two are taking.
Tell you what, next June you hunt up this thread and tell me if you can believe what you have written. The face of magic is changing, and E is at the forefront...some really cool things going on and we don't need Swill's skill with words (his main skill) to tell us we lead the pack.
By the way, I thought this was the epicenter of a magicians community that was created to unite magicians...why does so much tearing down go on here?
RJ
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I'm sorry I irritate you Steve. When was it that you realized I wasn't perfect?
I claim stuff about this and that, but I've only been into magic for a few years?
Well Steve, I HAVE only been in magic for a few years, sorry to disappoint. However, I do work my butt off every waking minute because unlike some people with rich mommies and daddys, and a nice house, a CAR, and time to spend with a large group of friends, I'm actually putting every ounce of effort I have into what I love because it's all I have, and I don't understand why you have a problem with that.
I don't make claims pal, I give my opinion. It's called free speech.
And if you have a problem with my opinions, guess what? You can try "ignoring" them, instead of taking personal cheap shots on a forum.
|| sean ||
I stand by EVERYTHING Sean said. I've spoken to Sean and he literally works his butt off every single day - When he should be eating, sleeping, doing other stuff.
Steve, that wasn't nice at all. I don't know how you could make such a cheap attack on a public board. You owe an apology.
Cheers,
AJ
One thing since sean is on here, don't start a huge arguement, but why did you release the card through window. It only had basically one move, an old move where people could have learned from a million books. It might give reactions but didn't you relize people would waste their money, on it? IDK you may think it worth a $30 DVD or whatever.
Rjohnson, sorry didn't realise this would start a fight, and the relaxed forum is a good thing, it shows t11 accepts criticism, and doesn't delete a review saying the 1st ed. guardians clump.
Why would E, a magic shop be at the forefront of this change in style? Chouldn't the magicians? IWould appreciate if YOu wrote up some sort of rebuttal since you obviously don't agree with Mr. Swiss.
Rjohnson, sorry didn't realise this would start a fight, and the relaxed forum is a good thing, it shows t11 accepts criticism, and doesn't delete a review saying the 1st ed. guardians clump.
Why would E, a magic shop be at the forefront of this change in style? Chouldn't the magicians? IWould appreciate if YOu wrote up some sort of rebuttal since you obviously don't agree with Mr. Swiss.
Jamy is one of those guys who has a skill with writing. Yes, he writes very well I agree and is an influential guy, but I have heard from people who have seen him say that he isn't anything special at all. His magic that is. Unfortunately for him, his ego is always in front of him. He only puts others down and blows his own horn. He may be talented but such kind of behavior is just not something I would look up to or support.
Swiss is someone who has a strong disliking for Ellusionist and Brad and this article is quite biased and is a indirect (rather direct) attack at him. If what he says is actually correct, then it would be that Ellusionist would no longer exist and that all the magic sites would be down now. But it's actually just the opposite. Their demographic is mainly towards the beginner aspiring magician.
TKH, if you are saying that negative reviews are deleted at E I'm sorry to tell you that that is incorrect. The reviews that are removed are those which are not substantiated and those which simply come across as over biased praising or bashing. This goes for BOTH - Negative AND positive reviews. However this isn't a thread about that to be discussed. Sorry for straying a bit.
Cheers,
AJ
Swiss is someone who has a strong disliking for Ellusionist and Brad and this article is quite biased and is a indirect (rather direct) attack at him. If what he says is actually correct, then it would be that Ellusionist would no longer exist and that all the magic sites would be down now. But it's actually just the opposite. Their demographic is mainly towards the beginner aspiring magician.
TKH, if you are saying that negative reviews are deleted at E I'm sorry to tell you that that is incorrect. The reviews that are removed are those which are not substantiated and those which simply come across as over biased praising or bashing. This goes for BOTH - Negative AND positive reviews. However this isn't a thread about that to be discussed. Sorry for straying a bit.
Cheers,
AJ
I agree with a lot he has to say actually. I think that although the streets can be a great training ground to get your technical chops up a bit, it isn't what I would call a full "venue". It doesn't pay (unless your busking) and you do not have the staging or presence that you can achieve through a show or even a strolling gig. The snipes at (e) could have been ommitted, but then again the company has had a heavy hand in promoting this style of magic, so they must at least be mentioned. But the snipes weren't needed.
As for all the (e) members floating in and brandishing their cutlasses, I'd ask only that they be made of wood. Mud-slinging is a horrible habit, and gets everyone dirty.
I think that would also be the case for the members here too. There are ways to express your opinions without being aggressive and rude.
Ty
As for all the (e) members floating in and brandishing their cutlasses, I'd ask only that they be made of wood. Mud-slinging is a horrible habit, and gets everyone dirty.
I think that would also be the case for the members here too. There are ways to express your opinions without being aggressive and rude.
Ty
I will do it even one better. Words are simply words while actions speak so much louder. Like I said...stick around the world of magic for the next 6 to 9 months and see what is happening. I can not tell you more, but you will have to re-evaluate any negative stances you may have.
On the other hand, I have a well defined ability to use my words to cut and debase if I need to...so maybe I will go ahead and write an article about Mr. Swill and the mediocrity of arm chair magicians who are paid to put words together in ways that guarantee strong reactions regardless of veracity.
Then again, I can't hold my breath long enough to sink to that level.
Keep your eyes open, be honest...watch,
RJ
I dont see why everyone thinks selling effects for beginners is a destroying magic when these websites gave more than half of you guys your start in magic and you all know who I'm talking to. Jamy is talented yes but it's another case of Arod, it's the lack of gratitude for the working man that makes him ugly. Sean use's techniques taught before SO WHAT! Most of magic is just revolving and its the presentation hes selling. I personally don't like KAOS and yes I did purchase it I just find it rather elementary but thats my opinion it doesn't fit with my style. But Brad, Chris, Uri, Sean are still pro's at what they do and they should be respected for that.
That was a good read but I don't like people telling me Street Magic doesn't exist. Because I know first hand that it does. I perform on the streets EVERY day. So until the author actually TRIES performing street magic, then I'll read his article more seriously.
As for the people who say Brad Christian doesn't have much experience, has anyone seen him in a 1980 music video? He's performing magic. So he's at least been performing magic since the 80's.
Mitchell
As for the people who say Brad Christian doesn't have much experience, has anyone seen him in a 1980 music video? He's performing magic. So he's at least been performing magic since the 80's.
Mitchell
Selling effects for $30 as opposed to books to beginners is the problem.. If people use the excuse they are a visual learner theory11 has put and I believe will be putting effects from books on to video, like Chris KEnners effects, Aaron fisher, they are from their books.
Brad? Pro? Pro what? Pro owner of a magic site? I doubt he does show now, I could be wrong. I don't think he makes a living doing magic, but selling it.
You say Mr. Beard was selling presentation, no I don't believe there is any presentation in KAOS, I may be corrected since I only saw it once whem I was at a friend's house.HE was selling application of the move. Nothing I beleive besides the application of the moves was new. I understand if its not right for me don't buy it, but why are they selling it then? New magicians will buy it and be programmed that the certain move, is for KAOS, not realizing the amount of athings you can do with it.
Don't mean to be people's enemy, I will wait the months to see how E will change magic. DOes this have to do with the tv show?
Luke Jermay wants to put 13 Steps on DVD. By your logic, Luke is trying to destroy mentalism.
But that won't stop you from throwing more wood on the fire over at the rumor mill apparently.
This stands as perhaps the single stupidest thing said in the thread so far. If it's performed, then it has a presentation by definition.
Because you are not the final word on quality, and nobody is making effects specifically for you.
Because as everybody knows, newbies are stupid. Guys like you and I were great the instant we started out. We were born knowing how to palm cards, do shuttle passes, and ditch gimmicks. I mean, where do these retailers get off, trying to bring new people into the scene? How dare they not put arning labels on all thier products?
In case you couldn't tell, I packed enough sarcasm into that one paragraph to kill off an entire cadre of flying robot ninjas who were also on fire.
The more this thread goes on, the more kvlt kiddie syndrome I see springing up.
I was saying the 1on1 stuff was good, so would 13 steps to mentalism on dvd, you must have interpeted that wrong, YOu are right that was dumb saying no presntation, should have proofread what I was saying.
I never said new people into magic was bad, I am just saying you could buy Royal road to card magic and learn the sleight to do KAOS, and begginers, which is what E is selling to shouldn't be spending 30 bucks on a dvd like that, they should be instead buyign a book which would teach them more stuff, and more importantly the way " card guys"(like Marlo, erdnase, and such) and "the coin guys" did it.
I didn't say I was the final word on quality, I am saying, newbies, which is who E appeals to should get something for 30 that is a bit more then the one move.
I am done.
I never said new people into magic was bad, I am just saying you could buy Royal road to card magic and learn the sleight to do KAOS, and begginers, which is what E is selling to shouldn't be spending 30 bucks on a dvd like that, they should be instead buyign a book which would teach them more stuff, and more importantly the way " card guys"(like Marlo, erdnase, and such) and "the coin guys" did it.
I didn't say I was the final word on quality, I am saying, newbies, which is who E appeals to should get something for 30 that is a bit more then the one move.
I am done.
Technically, it wasn't really my sole decision to release the effect. For some reason, everyone thinks that I just waltzed into E and told them to release KAOS cause I said so.
In REALITY, I shared the idea FOR free with some friends of mine, and they told me to pitch the idea to E. I never expected it to be marketed so I submitted the idea as a joke, I figured they would get a good laugh.
Next thing I know, Danny Garcia, and you will ALL love this, you're very OWN Jonathan Bayme, Jon Raiker, and Wayne Houchin -
-HELPED create KAOS. They MADE the dvd. The ONLY thing on there that is MINE is the original effect, everything else was modifications by other people. And ironically, a LOT of it by the owners of this very site.
I love how they sit back and make the money while I'm the one who takes the heat for everything. I officially have lost all respect for some people.
I originally released the CTW as a joke, and for free to certain friends of mine. I DO realize the simplicity, but that doesn't change the fact that I like the effect, and I DO think it is the ONLY "Card Through Window" effect on the market because it is the only effect where a card goes through the glass and doesn't just appear on the other side of the window stuck with glue or tape. That's "Card ON Window."
So if there is ANYONE here, including Mr. Swiss who has a problem with KAOS and a problem with such a simple effect being put on a dvd, the people you SHOULD be talking to are the very core people of Theory11, BECAUSE according to what I was told, THEY were the ones who had the most to do with it.
|| sean ||
The interpretation I got was "Books good, Ellusionist DVD bad" said as a blanket statement.
But that's apparently what you were thinking, because you have so little faith in their intelligence.
And reverse engineer the whole thing themselves just like you did, right?
It's their money. Until you get a job as a financial planner, you can't tell people how to spend it.
So instead of being a DVD clone, you want them to be a book clone. Slick.
I hope those of you giving Sean flack right now feel this big.
As I said before when I first came into this thread, I really hate dealing with other magicians, and this illustrates why.
I LOVE BANANAS AND COLORING!!!!!
Why can't weeee be friends? Why can't weeee be friends?
On a serious note, I hear you people constantly complaining about magic being a dying art. How do you expect it to stay alive when the people who are supposed to keep it alive are being like this? Come on guys.
Why can't weeee be friends? Why can't weeee be friends?
On a serious note, I hear you people constantly complaining about magic being a dying art. How do you expect it to stay alive when the people who are supposed to keep it alive are being like this? Come on guys.
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I meant no offense to Mr. Beard, more to the effect, I had no idea who was behind it. Book Clone? Dvd clone I believe you are referring to people who copy presentations from DVDs, which is common. The books I refer to are not those of presentation, but of sleights, and effects, Royal road to Card magic, and Expert at the card table.
I am sorry I care about these people being broke because they bought 4 ellusionsit dvds, and know their first 4 magic tricks, which costed them $120.
Sorry to pinpoint u Sean, I had no clue it was these guys who did the majority of the dvd.
REverse engineer? no, encourage creativity yes, once you know the basic sleights, creativity comes in and you stop worrying about new effects, but creating presentations and effects of your own.
Yes I have gotten to the point that recently I have little faith in the knowedge on newbies magicians because I have shown people at my club effects of mine, and have referred to something like a top change, and they didnt know what it was. These were not new magicians, they have done magic for 2-3 years, close-up, and dont know basic card sleights. It may jsut be the 3 people in my magic club.
I am sorry I care about these people being broke because they bought 4 ellusionsit dvds, and know their first 4 magic tricks, which costed them $120.
Sorry to pinpoint u Sean, I had no clue it was these guys who did the majority of the dvd.
REverse engineer? no, encourage creativity yes, once you know the basic sleights, creativity comes in and you stop worrying about new effects, but creating presentations and effects of your own.
Yes I have gotten to the point that recently I have little faith in the knowedge on newbies magicians because I have shown people at my club effects of mine, and have referred to something like a top change, and they didnt know what it was. These were not new magicians, they have done magic for 2-3 years, close-up, and dont know basic card sleights. It may jsut be the 3 people in my magic club.