In Search of Street Magic By: Jamy Ian Swiss
- Thread starter TKH
- Start date
Obviously your the ambassador here that tells everyone what they should do for a living what you just said was the most absent minded thing I have heard in a long time. Are you kidding me! Go to a hospital if you don't want to make money at magic man you got alot to learn can't wait till you learn it then you'll see how twisted you actually sound. Best of luck to you with profiting off your magic. You obviously abused your free speech privilege. Some of us have to learn the hard way, Good Luck.
I
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Ahhh...I haven't read a thread like this for at least twenty mins, good to see another one up.
I'll refrain for highlighting my disdain for Mr Swiss as I annoyed Joshua on the Cafe last time I did...
As for newbies and magic and Ellusionist and Theory 11 and Sean and all that stuff...
I've been doing magic as a hobby for the last three years, therefore I am a newbie as i'm not all that good, but that's more to do with very little time to practice than anything else. When i do practice, I find myself still practicing my basics, as I know that my basics will lead onto all the other stuff. What was my first DVD? How To Do Street Magic. Taught me many things...the most important of which was this:
I absolutely adore magic and i want to be able to do it properly and have some fun into the bargain.
I fail to see how Ellusionist has done anything other to take an enquiring mind and kick-start it off down a path it now wishes it had been travelling for its entire life.
The sleights I'm really good at were all learnt from Brad.
The DVD's that taught me those sleights were all made by Brad.
I've spent thousands with Ellusionist and I don't regret a single purchase...well...maybe a few...ha.
What have I learnt from E other than the basic sleights required to get me practicing and performing magic? (not that I've done that that often, have never claimed to have and i see no reason it makes any difference to someone's knowledge or desire apart from if they claim to be able to give good sound advice for performing) I've learnt a lot about presentation, audience control, tips for effect practice and overall...a deep love for this genre of performance and an even deeper desire to see it given the respect it's due by myself. Have i made mistakes along the way? Yes. But then I'm only human. But I've also had that very special joy that is a dropped jaw and a wide-eyed stare after performing a little trick or two...which, surely...is the main goal here?
Some points of interest...well..I say interest, that statement is infinitely debatable:
Do i buy exclusively from Ellusionist?
No. I buy from wherever I want and i learn from wherever and whoever I want.
Do i subscribe exclusively to E's board?
No...this post is the most obvious way of highlighting that.
Do I own any books?
Yes...lots...I decided i wanted to buy them and learn from them after getting into magic through DVD's...so what does that say for me? Apparently if I don't start with them I'm a git...well, in the words of Happy Harry Hardon..."So Be It."
Do I believe that E is better than T-11 or vice versa or (God forbid) other sites are better than both?
Yes and no. Most of the things the E forums get criticized for most are the actual things that make the place such a joy to post on. Well...apart from all the *Check out my new trick* type posts but no forum can get away from that. The boundless enthusiasm of youth...I think I recall what that is from long, long ago.
As for Sean Beard and KAOS...MY OPINION of the trick is that it is an excellent piece of magic, structured and designed for maximum impact with minimum work and fuss...it's all in the presentation. As that is MY OPINION and everyone is welcome to their own, I will refrain from bashing anyone elses.
As for Steerpikes distaste for Magicians....I wonder what that signifies for this *Art* everyone is always banging on about as if it were a religion to go to war for? I wonder what it signifies for this board and all the others that are part of companies that create and buy and sell magic effects for monetary gain...not that many people seem to be able to get that very simple fact into their heads?
Steerpike, I urge you to hunt down some magicians that you Do actually like and stick with em'. Ignore that which is around you and smells funny. You'll feel better for it mate.
Last, but by no means least, Street Magic?
Seriously...does it matter what it's called or how or where it's performed?
To me it's all just magic.
That should be a common truth that puts paid to all the *****ing and moaning about the death of magic, but I guess it won't happen that way. More's the pity.
I've rambled and I've missed the whole point probably but I'm tired and it's late...
Rightso...I'm off to drink horrendous amounts of alcohol and stick Hostel II on the Durrvved player....
Rabid
I'll refrain for highlighting my disdain for Mr Swiss as I annoyed Joshua on the Cafe last time I did...
As for newbies and magic and Ellusionist and Theory 11 and Sean and all that stuff...
I've been doing magic as a hobby for the last three years, therefore I am a newbie as i'm not all that good, but that's more to do with very little time to practice than anything else. When i do practice, I find myself still practicing my basics, as I know that my basics will lead onto all the other stuff. What was my first DVD? How To Do Street Magic. Taught me many things...the most important of which was this:
I absolutely adore magic and i want to be able to do it properly and have some fun into the bargain.
I fail to see how Ellusionist has done anything other to take an enquiring mind and kick-start it off down a path it now wishes it had been travelling for its entire life.
The sleights I'm really good at were all learnt from Brad.
The DVD's that taught me those sleights were all made by Brad.
I've spent thousands with Ellusionist and I don't regret a single purchase...well...maybe a few...ha.
What have I learnt from E other than the basic sleights required to get me practicing and performing magic? (not that I've done that that often, have never claimed to have and i see no reason it makes any difference to someone's knowledge or desire apart from if they claim to be able to give good sound advice for performing) I've learnt a lot about presentation, audience control, tips for effect practice and overall...a deep love for this genre of performance and an even deeper desire to see it given the respect it's due by myself. Have i made mistakes along the way? Yes. But then I'm only human. But I've also had that very special joy that is a dropped jaw and a wide-eyed stare after performing a little trick or two...which, surely...is the main goal here?
Some points of interest...well..I say interest, that statement is infinitely debatable:
Do i buy exclusively from Ellusionist?
No. I buy from wherever I want and i learn from wherever and whoever I want.
Do i subscribe exclusively to E's board?
No...this post is the most obvious way of highlighting that.
Do I own any books?
Yes...lots...I decided i wanted to buy them and learn from them after getting into magic through DVD's...so what does that say for me? Apparently if I don't start with them I'm a git...well, in the words of Happy Harry Hardon..."So Be It."
Do I believe that E is better than T-11 or vice versa or (God forbid) other sites are better than both?
Yes and no. Most of the things the E forums get criticized for most are the actual things that make the place such a joy to post on. Well...apart from all the *Check out my new trick* type posts but no forum can get away from that. The boundless enthusiasm of youth...I think I recall what that is from long, long ago.
As for Sean Beard and KAOS...MY OPINION of the trick is that it is an excellent piece of magic, structured and designed for maximum impact with minimum work and fuss...it's all in the presentation. As that is MY OPINION and everyone is welcome to their own, I will refrain from bashing anyone elses.
As for Steerpikes distaste for Magicians....I wonder what that signifies for this *Art* everyone is always banging on about as if it were a religion to go to war for? I wonder what it signifies for this board and all the others that are part of companies that create and buy and sell magic effects for monetary gain...not that many people seem to be able to get that very simple fact into their heads?
Steerpike, I urge you to hunt down some magicians that you Do actually like and stick with em'. Ignore that which is around you and smells funny. You'll feel better for it mate.
Last, but by no means least, Street Magic?
Seriously...does it matter what it's called or how or where it's performed?
To me it's all just magic.
That should be a common truth that puts paid to all the *****ing and moaning about the death of magic, but I guess it won't happen that way. More's the pity.
I've rambled and I've missed the whole point probably but I'm tired and it's late...
Rightso...I'm off to drink horrendous amounts of alcohol and stick Hostel II on the Durrvved player....
Rabid
why do we have such heated debates?
i really did/do like this forum, it has been able to bring people from many magic communities together...lets not mess this up.
respect is the key!
a wise man once said "if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all"
this concept could really help this thread....
maybe this thread needs to be closed?
Just my thoughts...
-Brad
i really did/do like this forum, it has been able to bring people from many magic communities together...lets not mess this up.
respect is the key!
a wise man once said "if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all"
this concept could really help this thread....
maybe this thread needs to be closed?
Just my thoughts...
-Brad
It's not that I don't seek out magicians I can actually relate to.
It's just that I'm a bitter alcoholic Slovak (as if there's any other kind of Slovak?) with elitist notions, a strong dislike for artistic politics, and a rampaging ego wanted in 3 states for assault.
Joking aside, I do not suffer fools. Throughout the art world, the individual communities are littered with people going at one another's throats because they're unable to adapt.
In magic you have Jamy Swiss and his legion of parrots tearing into the current trends of magic while simultaneously unaware of the massive hypocricy and congitive dissonance their vomitting all over cyberspace. In music you have people who still believe there is such a thing as a battle between mainstream vs. indie and vehemently attack anyone on "the wrong side" of the non-issue. In film you have old guard, crusty, armchair film theorists who despise montage editing and HD digital video because Orson Welles never used either.
It's a damn mess. And the only thing that gets under my skin more than the infighting itself is the masses who buy into it.
Ha....
I once had a conversation with a guy who told me that the thing that was bringing down modern cinema was all these special effects and fancy camera moves and editing getting in the way of story and characterisation. He told me to go and watch Citizen Kane as an example of how it SHOULD be done....
I managed to contain my laughter until he'd left the pub.
In the same way the magic in the example above is in not seeing how the building appeared so tall; so too the magic in magic is not in seeing things that aren't there, but rather thinking you see things that aren't there.
Which fits the original article to a tee.
Rabid
Well......I didn't know this stuff was going on until I just read through the thread after Mitchell posted the link. But here goes my rebuttal...lol.
Sean...been there, done that. Atleast what you're doing that is. I've been into magic for over 10 years now, and have been performing professionally the past 2 years. I worked my ass off to get where I'm at and be only 18. I don't have rich parents...believe it or not, most of the nice stuff I have I earned. But, I do have time to hang out and not practice magic...I have quite a bit time for that. While I've only paid a very tiny portion of my dues so far, truth is, I didn't get where I'm at right now by having everything handed to me. You think that restaurant gig came easy? All those weddings, Christmas parties, and me just now getting to the point where I am getting bookings consistently came easy? Well it didn't...that took time and plenty of it. Time for people to know my name and for me to gain credibility and trust. Trust that my clients know they're getting a quality show that's worth the $300 they're spending for an hour and a half strolling and a 30 minute close up show. My rates aren't high, but dammit I worked my ass off to get where I'm at and still do to get to the next level.
Sorry, but like Sean said, that's my opinion. I don't think anything I said warrants an apology, as nothing was out of line. If anyone can't deal with that, that's not my problem. If he works as hard as you and him say, then props to him. But still, way to early to be releasing anything in my opinion.
I have plenty of stuff that I have made my own, or completely changed and adapted for me. Some stuff might be semi original, some stuff might be old but I just thought of it. Who knows. But, I know I'm not going to be releasing any of it anytime soon. I know that. Right now, this stuff is my bread and butter and is what pays the bills....I have 2 routines that I came up with, but am yet to find out if they're original or not. Without feeding my ego though, they're killer routines and are staples in my act. I can say that much. And if you think Jamy's main skill is with words, think again. His skill with cards, coins, and anything else semi related to magic is extraordinary and he deserves props just due to the sheer amount of time he spends working, not to mention the high level of quality stuff he's released to the magic community, through lectures, dvds, books, etc.
But whatever......like I've said time and again, these are my opinions. Sorry to open up a closed wound or whatever, as I completely missed this thread afterwards. But I felt the need to give my responses and not look like an ******* here. I respect everyone that respects me, and just because we disagree on something, doesn't mean I hate you. Sean, AJ, RJ, no hard feelings. From me at least.
Best.
Steve
--
Steven Simmons
Entertainer
www.simmonsmagic.com
Steve, for the first part of your rebuttal, I wasn't talking about you, I was making an open statement in a broad spectrum, that I'm not some kid just trying to make a fast buck. Honestly, I submitted KAOS as a joke, and Garcia and E just elaborated on the original method, and thus, you have KAOS.
I didn't even name the effect. E did. I do get credit for the original concept though, which is nice I suppose, but I never toted it around like I did all the work and I've been using it in my career for years.
The truth is, I do have my own material, that I do not release and most likely never will. It is tested and researched and fueled by passion and studying. I never claim or claimed to be a master magician, I never, not once have declared myself as anything more than a student just trying to learn and study as much as possible.
You strike a lot of people as very elitist, and that's okay to an extent, but I took your comment as if I'm not good enough for my accomplishments.
That's ok, it's an opinion, I just wish people would leave me alone for the most part, and not publicly address their problems and criticisms with others, and that is said in regards to Mr. Swiss. I wish I could do something to get my stupid name out of his stupid article, but unfortunately, I suffer because of some "Elitist" smart-alic middle aged man has nothing better to do than to throw stones.
Anyway, now that you've explained that your real beef is with me releasing an effect with so little experience in magic, that's fine. I really don't mind that at all, in fact, I agree with you, kids SHOULD be gaining experience rather than releasing effects.
I just hope you don't have personal beef with ME, as I would have no idea why, as you don't really know me, or have talked to me. I would very much like to have friends rather than enemies, so if you are up for it, could we put this behind us?
|| sean ||
Steve, for the first part of your rebuttal, I wasn't talking about you, I was making an open statement in a broad spectrum, that I'm not some kid just trying to make a fast buck. Honestly, I submitted KAOS as a joke, and Garcia and E just elaborated on the original method, and thus, you have KAOS.
I didn't even name the effect. E did. I do get credit for the original concept though, which is nice I suppose, but I never toted it around like I did all the work and I've been using it in my career for years.
The truth is, I do have my own material, that I do not release and most likely never will. It is tested and researched and fueled by passion and studying. I never claim or claimed to be a master magician, I never, not once have declared myself as anything more than a student just trying to learn and study as much as possible.
You strike a lot of people as very elitist, and that's okay to an extent, but I took your comment as if I'm not good enough for my accomplishments.
That's ok, it's an opinion, I just wish people would leave me alone for the most part, and not publicly address their problems and criticisms with others, and that is said in regards to Mr. Swiss. I wish I could do something to get my stupid name out of his stupid article, but unfortunately, I suffer because of some "Elitist" smart-alic middle aged man has nothing better to do than to throw stones.
Anyway, now that you've explained that your real beef is with me releasing an effect with so little experience in magic, that's fine. I really don't mind that at all, in fact, I agree with you, kids SHOULD be gaining experience rather than releasing effects.
I just hope you don't have personal beef with ME, as I would have no idea why, as you don't really know me, or have talked to me. I would very much like to have friends rather than enemies, so if you are up for it, could we put this behind us?
|| sean ||
I'm sure I do seem very elitist to some, and that;s okay. I'm sure I am to a certain extent, as I don't really deny it. But when push comes to shove, I don't know **** when speaking about all there is to learn regarding magic in general. And neither does anyone else on these forums with an exception going to a VERY select few.
And yes, I think we can put this behind up now, as I said I have no ill-wishes toward anyone at the moment lol.
Best.
Steve