My mind is blown

[scarecrow1]

MagicZack, The second effect is very much possible (and just as cleanly as he did it). From what I've heard, Derek Dingle has a similar move (having the spectator look at a fan of cards, and knowing which one it is), and Expert Card Technique talks about something very similar as what Miika did, only from a fan of cards, not a spread. (A very simple altercation). Also, the second half of the trick (dealing the cards out of his pocket onto the table) is in Expert Card Technique also, the exact same method. So yes, the second trick if very possible, and is. If you want to learn it, I would recommend you pick up a copy of ECT and study it. The knowledge is in it, plus the book is freaking amazing anyway, so you should get it eventually either way.
As to the first trick, I have no clue.


Cheers

 

[GosuTricks]

Ah, "implies", you say. Would that be in the same way that if I twirl a wand it "implies" that I'm not palming a coin in that hand? You see my point. By the way, I don't know the specific method for this trick, but I'm just saying that jumping to the conclusion of stooges or chance, is to ignore a huge array of techniques that we as magicians have to work with. I think that, if we're going to discuss another magician's work in this way, the only useful approach is to be as imaginative as possible, and take our minds on the journey of "how would we achieve that effect, under those conditions?". To come back with "stooges or chance" shows a lack of creative ambition, in my opinion.

I don't get what you're trying to argue. Are you saying that the 5 of clubs was forced? Honestly, your argument about my use of my word "implies" is completely off topic. Chance is a very plausible factor in the cleanliness of the handling of the trick - Dai Vernon's Out of Sight, Out of Mind trick demonstrates this idea very well. I actually have a stacked deck effect that varies based on the card named, where a number of effects could happen. This is what I mean when I say chance. Do you honestly believe that he could control 1 out of any 51 cards to 1 out of any 52 positions like that?

I don't know, but maybe he left some cards in the box.



EDIT: I just watched the second video... didn't notice it before. The only possible method here is a psychological force.

 

[D ICE R]

Obviously I am just speculating but the second effect looks like OOSOOM was the starting point.

Both effects are entirely possible to do that clean however you are only 9 months in you have a long way to go to understand the concepts in play in these effects

 

[TheatreHead]

MagicZack, go watch some Derren Brown specials. Seriously.
The true mentalists perform effects of which the impossibility reaches far beyond that of an ACAAN.

Don't reject it just because you, with your nine months of experience, can't rationalize or think of a way that this couldn't work without stooges or a set up.

 

[MagicZack24]

MagicZack, go watch some Derren Brown specials. Seriously.
The true mentalists perform effects of which the impossibility reaches far beyond that of an ACAAN.

Don't reject it just because you, with your nine months of experience, can't rationalize or think of a way that this couldn't work without stooges or a set up.

What does Derren Brown have to do with Miika??? Darren Brown is a mentalist, Miika is a card magician. Darren uses NLP and other psychological techniques to accomplish his effects. Speech is critical for him. Without it, he wouldn't be able to do a lot of his tricks. Miika barely talked at all during the videos, and there's no way that you could do a psychological force by saying "pick a card." But if Miika did in fact do a psychological force, he did it before the video started recording. It does sort of make sense, because the five of clubs was selected both times, which might not be a simple coincidence. But in that case, I'm still right because the video doesn't dictate a method that uses any sort of force. The video implies that the card is truly a free choice, and isn't influenced in any way, physically or psychologically. We wouldn't be seeing the big picture.

 

[MagicZack24]

MagicZack, The second effect is very much possible (and just as cleanly as he did it). From what I've heard, Derek Dingle has a similar move (having the spectator look at a fan of cards, and knowing which one it is), and Expert Card Technique talks about something very similar as what Miika did, only from a fan of cards, not a spread. (A very simple altercation). Also, the second half of the trick (dealing the cards out of his pocket onto the table) is in Expert Card Technique also, the exact same method. So yes, the second trick if very possible, and is. If you want to learn it, I would recommend you pick up a copy of ECT and study it. The knowledge is in it, plus the book is freaking amazing anyway, so you should get it eventually either way.
As to the first trick, I have no clue.


Cheers

What's the name of the trick in ECT? I got the book recently but haven't read much of it yet.

 

[TheatreHead]

Miika barely talked at all during the videos, and there's no way that you could do a psychological force by saying "pick a card."

Isn't there?

He must be using stooges. There's no way that you do an ACAAN in the manner he did without using some sort of set-up or a gimmick.

But if Miika did in fact do a psychological force, he did it before the video started recording. It does sort of make sense, because the five of clubs was selected both times, which might not be a simple coincidence. But in that case, I'm still right because the video doesn't dictate a method that uses any sort of force.

So what exactly is your point?

 

[MagicZack24]

Isn't there?




So what exactly is your point?

1) Psychological forces are somewhat complicated and take a lot more than just "pick a card, any card." Saying that will only prompt the spectator to do exactly what you tell them, pick ANY card, not a specific one.

2) The ACAAN either uses psychological forces not shown in the video, or it's gimmicked, which is probably the explanation. It's the second effect that I find impossible to believe.

3) If the explanation behind the effects is a psychological force, how can you tell me that it occurred in the video? You're the one who brought up Derren Brown. Clearly it takes very clever techniques to control a spectator's actions. "Pick a card, any card", is not clever speech and certainly doesn't constitute a psychological force. So if one was used, it happened before the video started recording.

My point is that either the effect is illegitimate, or the video isn't showing us the entire trick. If we can't see the trick in it's entirety, the video isn't an accurate representation of the effect. But again, maybe I'm wrong. Scarecrow1 said the second effect is in Expert Card Technique. If I find it, and it turns out to be the EXACT same trick, I'll admit my mistake. Until then, my opinion remains the same.

 

[D ICE R]

Neither of the effects are that complicated the acaan is not that different from a few other methods

The second effect I can say 100% it is 100% impromptu and I will wager money on that statement.

 

[TeeDee]

1) Psychological forces are somewhat complicated and take a lot more than just "pick a card, any card." Saying that will only prompt the spectator to do exactly what you tell them, pick ANY card, not a specific one.

2) The ACAAN either uses psychological forces not shown in the video, or it's gimmicked, which is probably the explanation. It's the second effect that I find impossible to believe.

3) If the explanation behind the effects is a psychological force, how can you tell me that it occurred in the video? You're the one who brought up Derren Brown. Clearly it takes very clever techniques to control a spectator's actions. "Pick a card, any card", is not clever speech and certainly doesn't constitute a psychological force. So if one was used, it happened before the video started recording.

My point is that either the effect is illegitimate, or the video isn't showing us the entire trick. If we can't see the trick in it's entirety, the video isn't an accurate representation of the effect. But again, maybe I'm wrong. Scarecrow1 said the second effect is in Expert Card Technique. If I find it, and it turns out to be the EXACT same trick, I'll admit my mistake. Until then, my opinion remains the same.

I don't just want to list a series of possible methods as that isn't polite to Miika. However, if you do more research into the type of effects performed by Derren Brown, and the ACAAN plot, then you'll realise that psychological techniques aren't always being employed, even if they appear to be. Of course, it's essential to frame everything as a free and fair choice for the trick to be effective, but maybe there are subtleties that you're missing. Basically, what I'm saying is, do some more reading, and I guarantee that you will, at some point, look back at this thread and shake your head with a rueful smile when you remember how Miika managed to fool you.

The second effect isn't in ECT in it's complete state, but the building blocks to construct it certainly are.

 

[scarecrow1]

The second effect isn't in ECT in it's complete state, but the building blocks to construct it certainly are.

Exactly. MagicZach, there are two effects in ECT describing the first, and second technique that Miika uses in the second effect. Miika just uses a variation on the first move (when he asks the spectator to remember any card, as he shows them the spread of cards).

 

[MagicZack24]

Exactly. MagicZach, there are two effects in ECT describing the first, and second technique that Miika uses in the second effect. Miika just uses a variation on the first move (when he asks the spectator to remember any card, as he shows them the spread of cards).

Could you please tell me what the effects are so I can find them easier?

 

[TheatreHead]

Could you please tell me what the effects are so I can find them easier?

Where's the fun in finding stuff easily?

 

[Robert//Livingston]

Where's the fun in finding stuff easily?

Exactly. Do some research, and don't ask to be spoon-fed information.

 

[MagicZack24]

Exactly. Do some research, and don't ask to be spoon-fed information.

I'm not asking to be spoon-fed information. I only asked for the names of the effects, so that I can find them and start learning them. The book is quite long and I want to learn these effects first, then go back and read the rest of the book. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[UnknownMagician93]

You guys need to do your research. check "the berglas effect". And also, this exact trick was performed at EMC just this past week. Its legit

 

[scarecrow1]

You guys need to do your research. check "the berglas effect". And also, this exact trick was performed at EMC just this past week. Its legit

I'm aware of the berglas effect, however, if you had done your "research" you would find that Miika is posting a new effect (or his own creation) every week. I highly doubt this is the berglas effect, but there might be some of the same principles in use here. I don't own The Berglas Effects though, so I wouldn't know.

Cheers,
Ryan

 

[TheatreHead]

I'm aware of the berglas effect....
I highly doubt this is the berglas effect...
I don't own The Berglas Effects though, so I wouldn't know.

This is quite amusing to me.

 

[scarecrow1]

This is quite amusing to me.

Haha, wow, if you split up what I said it does

What I mean, is that David Berglas has worked on, and honed his Berglas Effect of many many years. I doubt Miika could do the same effect seeing how young he is. I doubt most magicians could do the Berglas Effect like David Berglas. I also said I doubt it was David's effect, because Miika is posting only tricks he created. Put the two together and I highly highly doubt it's the same as the berglas effect. Nobody's going to accomplish in a few years what took David Berglas years upon years to perfect.

 

[TheatreHead]

Haha, wow, if you split up what I said it does

What I mean, is that David Berglas has worked on, and honed his Berglas Effect of many many years. I doubt Miika could do the same effect seeing how young he is. I doubt most magicians could do the Berglas Effect like David Berglas. I also said I doubt it was David's effect, because Miika is posting only tricks he created. Put the two together and I highly highly doubt it's the same as the berglas effect. Nobody's going to accomplish in a few years what took David Berglas years upon years to perfect.

You're misusing the term "Berglas Effect". Nowadays, it's synonymous with the term "Any Card at Any Number", not specifically the mechanics of the effect that Berglas himself did.

Not that anyone knows the inner workings of the original trick anyway.