Never said you should fake it, just that you should try to care about them. Get to know them a bit better. etc etc. People will be more inclined to enjoy what you do, if they consider you a friend.
Put the cards down...
- Thread starter visualartist
- Start date
Hey all you silly knuckleheads!! Just read through this entire thread and there are some good points being brought up here. I guess I will throw in my $2.94 worth...
visualartist started off a pretty good topic here. Some of what I agree with, some I do not agree with.
While I DO feel it is important to branch out; put your feelers out there just to see what other cool types of effects you can learn/come up with, I also feel that once you find your niche, you should stick with it and become a master at it. Because lets face it. There are too many magicians out there who aren't even old enough to drive who are putting TO many feelers out there, and the end result is nasty. Yes they might know what a muscle pass is. Yes they might know how to perform a bit of mind reading. But you know what? 9 times out of 10, it is going to be garbage.
Why is that? Well, take one of the greatest Martial Artists who has ever walked the planet, Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee was more than just a Martial Artist. He was a philosopher of the art. He firmly believed in the cross styling of different Martial Arts, but only once one had first mastered a style. He felt that by crossing styles too early, you would get confused with the different foot techniques, or grabs, or forms and thus, your "art" would be very sloppy.
So how does this apply to our magic? Well, look at someone like David Roth. He is a MASTER of coin magic. He is a PIONEER in that field. Does he do card magic? You bet he does. But he is a MASTER of coin magic. Another example would be Steve Forte, who is one of the BEST sleight of hand artists alive. He is a MASTER of gambling techinques. Does he do coin magic? Yea...I have seen him do some stuff some time ago. But he is a MASTER of sleight of hand gambling techniques.
I am not saying that if you primarily perform with coins to NEVER pick up a deck of cards until you are a MASTER with money, but I think a significant amount of time needs to be spent in one subject before you jump into another.
I will say that if you are or want to become a professional magician, you WILL need to have more in your repetoire than just some card tricks.
So I guess the real question is, how many of us out there are "prematurely" booking gigs and performing only mediocre magic, because we haven't taken the time to really STUDY about the performance of our art?
If you perform for your friends all the time, well you are a hobbyist. You aren't making any money from them so who cares if you forgot your deck at home? THIS is where you try out the other material you put your feelers out there for.
But if you want to land gigs, you want STRONG, POLISHED and very rehearsed material. Make it a variety. I perform magic mostly behind a bar. Every time I come to "work", I bring the following: 4 decks of cards, some coins, sponge bunnies for my xxx rated routine (hey its a bar), rubber bands, a couple of sharpies and just added -- STRIP and Redline. My set is MOSTLY card magic but because I have worked with many different crowds, I can usually tell when they are begging for something more. Knowing HOW to perform, script, rehearse, etc is MUCH more important than trying to make a cheeseburger appear for some friends. Only AFTER knowing how to properly work a crowd, should you focus on that new "french fry from nipple routine" you have been wanted to show them...
I really do not know if I even answered anything relevant to this thread. I guess this was more of a ***** session on my end. My bad yo's and yo-ettes.
All The Best...
Mike
visualartist started off a pretty good topic here. Some of what I agree with, some I do not agree with.
While I DO feel it is important to branch out; put your feelers out there just to see what other cool types of effects you can learn/come up with, I also feel that once you find your niche, you should stick with it and become a master at it. Because lets face it. There are too many magicians out there who aren't even old enough to drive who are putting TO many feelers out there, and the end result is nasty. Yes they might know what a muscle pass is. Yes they might know how to perform a bit of mind reading. But you know what? 9 times out of 10, it is going to be garbage.
Why is that? Well, take one of the greatest Martial Artists who has ever walked the planet, Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee was more than just a Martial Artist. He was a philosopher of the art. He firmly believed in the cross styling of different Martial Arts, but only once one had first mastered a style. He felt that by crossing styles too early, you would get confused with the different foot techniques, or grabs, or forms and thus, your "art" would be very sloppy.
So how does this apply to our magic? Well, look at someone like David Roth. He is a MASTER of coin magic. He is a PIONEER in that field. Does he do card magic? You bet he does. But he is a MASTER of coin magic. Another example would be Steve Forte, who is one of the BEST sleight of hand artists alive. He is a MASTER of gambling techinques. Does he do coin magic? Yea...I have seen him do some stuff some time ago. But he is a MASTER of sleight of hand gambling techniques.
I am not saying that if you primarily perform with coins to NEVER pick up a deck of cards until you are a MASTER with money, but I think a significant amount of time needs to be spent in one subject before you jump into another.
I will say that if you are or want to become a professional magician, you WILL need to have more in your repetoire than just some card tricks.
So I guess the real question is, how many of us out there are "prematurely" booking gigs and performing only mediocre magic, because we haven't taken the time to really STUDY about the performance of our art?
If you perform for your friends all the time, well you are a hobbyist. You aren't making any money from them so who cares if you forgot your deck at home? THIS is where you try out the other material you put your feelers out there for.
But if you want to land gigs, you want STRONG, POLISHED and very rehearsed material. Make it a variety. I perform magic mostly behind a bar. Every time I come to "work", I bring the following: 4 decks of cards, some coins, sponge bunnies for my xxx rated routine (hey its a bar), rubber bands, a couple of sharpies and just added -- STRIP and Redline. My set is MOSTLY card magic but because I have worked with many different crowds, I can usually tell when they are begging for something more. Knowing HOW to perform, script, rehearse, etc is MUCH more important than trying to make a cheeseburger appear for some friends. Only AFTER knowing how to properly work a crowd, should you focus on that new "french fry from nipple routine" you have been wanted to show them...
I really do not know if I even answered anything relevant to this thread. I guess this was more of a ***** session on my end. My bad yo's and yo-ettes.
All The Best...
Mike
I didn't read any of the posts except for visualartist's first one, and I whole heartedly agree. Great post...
I couldn't agree with Mike's post more.
Incoming rant again. There is a tl;dr on the bottom of the post for your convenience
I think you can roughly break up the learning of a trick into a few steps. This is just going off of my experience of the learning process. Your mileage may vary. The steps as best as I can identify them are:
What the book, dvd, instructor teaches you
1st. Technique-the actual physical movements performed
2nd. Patter-what you say, be it a script or a general idea that you work with
3rd. (Sometimes) Subtleties of the trick, little details on the movements, pacing of trick etc. This is what the instructor or author has personally learned while performing this trick.
Once those steps are covered you can move onto the bigger picture. Some of these steps improve your magic only in that particular field and some improve your understanding and performance of magic in general:
What the trick actually teaches you/what you learn performing it
The order of these is much more of a rough approximation...
4. The utility or application of the physical movements- example: You learn X trick and it uses a new method for moving a card from the bottom of the deck to the top that is more efficient than a method you are using in another trick so you add that sleight to your other trick.
5. Nuances of the movements involved-things like learning how changing the angle of your fingers makes the move harder or easier, learning you can do a get ready for a double lift while showing them another card, learning you can't perform the movement correctly if the deck is gripped too deep or to shallow etc.
From there what you learn becomes more applicable to your magic in general...
6. The utility or application of the patter or performance- Did a certain joke or line go over well? What was the nature of it? How could I apply that to other tricks I've learned or to effects I've created? Can I use a joke or off-putting line as misdirection? To break the tension? To lower their defenses?
7. Nuances of the patter and performance-Which particular type of timing, cadence, tone of voice, works best. Do different people favor different types? How long is too long to pause? When have you over-built a moment? Etc.
8. Everything else-Hecklers, handling crowds, handling pressure, angles, getting people involved, what you wear, use of eye contact etc etc etc. You get it, everything else. How can you make the very most out of this?
The point of all this is that when you are focused on a particular form of magic, you get through the first few steps much faster and can move on to learning the "big picture" stuff. The stuff that makes you better as a magician and not just better as a card guy, or silk guy, or mentalist or whatever. Once you learn how to make the most out of a particular style, its that much easier to make you're other forms of magic that much better.
tl;dr Strong branches grow from a strong trunk
Incoming rant again. There is a tl;dr on the bottom of the post for your convenience
I think you can roughly break up the learning of a trick into a few steps. This is just going off of my experience of the learning process. Your mileage may vary. The steps as best as I can identify them are:
What the book, dvd, instructor teaches you
1st. Technique-the actual physical movements performed
2nd. Patter-what you say, be it a script or a general idea that you work with
3rd. (Sometimes) Subtleties of the trick, little details on the movements, pacing of trick etc. This is what the instructor or author has personally learned while performing this trick.
Once those steps are covered you can move onto the bigger picture. Some of these steps improve your magic only in that particular field and some improve your understanding and performance of magic in general:
What the trick actually teaches you/what you learn performing it
The order of these is much more of a rough approximation...
4. The utility or application of the physical movements- example: You learn X trick and it uses a new method for moving a card from the bottom of the deck to the top that is more efficient than a method you are using in another trick so you add that sleight to your other trick.
5. Nuances of the movements involved-things like learning how changing the angle of your fingers makes the move harder or easier, learning you can do a get ready for a double lift while showing them another card, learning you can't perform the movement correctly if the deck is gripped too deep or to shallow etc.
From there what you learn becomes more applicable to your magic in general...
6. The utility or application of the patter or performance- Did a certain joke or line go over well? What was the nature of it? How could I apply that to other tricks I've learned or to effects I've created? Can I use a joke or off-putting line as misdirection? To break the tension? To lower their defenses?
7. Nuances of the patter and performance-Which particular type of timing, cadence, tone of voice, works best. Do different people favor different types? How long is too long to pause? When have you over-built a moment? Etc.
8. Everything else-Hecklers, handling crowds, handling pressure, angles, getting people involved, what you wear, use of eye contact etc etc etc. You get it, everything else. How can you make the very most out of this?
The point of all this is that when you are focused on a particular form of magic, you get through the first few steps much faster and can move on to learning the "big picture" stuff. The stuff that makes you better as a magician and not just better as a card guy, or silk guy, or mentalist or whatever. Once you learn how to make the most out of a particular style, its that much easier to make you're other forms of magic that much better.
tl;dr Strong branches grow from a strong trunk
True, but this was more pointed to the non kiddies who feel they should understand more and perform more magic and not card tricks.
I'm sure tons of youngins read this, not just them btw, but thought w/e my cards are so leet they will tear you up. Yet when I see their changes that are complete in their eyes they flash more than once. I am certainly no master in cards, nor ever will be but I want to be able to walk around and show something live with objects that are familiar to them.
Also, throughout the thread there is apparently some goal to be a master which is great, but think a bit realistically. You probably won't reach that level but you will be darn good. Now strive for something more, because the more I think about it I want to watch something that isn't known. Could you imagine the astonishment your specs would have from something that isn't a cliche of magicians.
I myself am really wondering if I should get into ordinary magic, but four years on a sub with enough mentalism material for twice that time is making me think realistically.
I'm sure specs would love to watch something that conveys to them somehow like wanting to turn money into money or fixing something broken. Even if it's setup a bit, I want to take some windex that's already half full or half empty w/e your choice is. Then with w/e wave I do it turns into a full bottle, which you could perform for your parents while they are cleaning, or some sort of employee working. How much would they freak out from that than they would from some card effect? Think about that and answer and get back to me if you don't mind.
I'm sure tons of youngins read this, not just them btw, but thought w/e my cards are so leet they will tear you up. Yet when I see their changes that are complete in their eyes they flash more than once. I am certainly no master in cards, nor ever will be but I want to be able to walk around and show something live with objects that are familiar to them.
Also, throughout the thread there is apparently some goal to be a master which is great, but think a bit realistically. You probably won't reach that level but you will be darn good. Now strive for something more, because the more I think about it I want to watch something that isn't known. Could you imagine the astonishment your specs would have from something that isn't a cliche of magicians.
I myself am really wondering if I should get into ordinary magic, but four years on a sub with enough mentalism material for twice that time is making me think realistically.
I'm sure specs would love to watch something that conveys to them somehow like wanting to turn money into money or fixing something broken. Even if it's setup a bit, I want to take some windex that's already half full or half empty w/e your choice is. Then with w/e wave I do it turns into a full bottle, which you could perform for your parents while they are cleaning, or some sort of employee working. How much would they freak out from that than they would from some card effect? Think about that and answer and get back to me if you don't mind.
I think that all depends on your performance. If you think card magic is crappy and mundane and boring then that is precisely what performing it will convey.
I would say that not giving other styles of magic a chance ever is about as bad as just trying all of them all at once. Don't knock it til you've tried it etc. Eventually everyone should try to branch out, just not before they've built a strong foundation in one. You don't just want to be okay at everything and great at nothing.
For me the idea that you should branch out is precisely the reason that you should first focus on only one. So that when you do branch out it will be that much easier for you to progress. I'm not saying cards in particular. Just pick the one you like most and focus on it for a while. Shoot, focus on getting the very most out of ONE TRICK for a while.
I would say that not giving other styles of magic a chance ever is about as bad as just trying all of them all at once. Don't knock it til you've tried it etc. Eventually everyone should try to branch out, just not before they've built a strong foundation in one. You don't just want to be okay at everything and great at nothing.
For me the idea that you should branch out is precisely the reason that you should first focus on only one. So that when you do branch out it will be that much easier for you to progress. I'm not saying cards in particular. Just pick the one you like most and focus on it for a while. Shoot, focus on getting the very most out of ONE TRICK for a while.
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But alot of times even with the ones that love card magic it comes off as mundane and lackluster.
Why?(general question,not just at haunter)
Self conscious perhaps, worried that their presentation will simply be laughed at and simply showing a cool trick is easier to get away with.
The lack of conscious effort, just going through the motions and bad habits built up of pattering on about nothing.
Or maybe just because they really don't care when it comes time. Sure they may understand but when the time comes they stick to what is comfortable, what "works" best for them and not entertaining the audience.
Just a few ideas, I honestly don't remember why I chose patter over script. Most likely the last one, but again I just remember a certain point I wanted to be more and chose to perform than to just present.
The lack of conscious effort, just going through the motions and bad habits built up of pattering on about nothing.
Or maybe just because they really don't care when it comes time. Sure they may understand but when the time comes they stick to what is comfortable, what "works" best for them and not entertaining the audience.
Just a few ideas, I honestly don't remember why I chose patter over script. Most likely the last one, but again I just remember a certain point I wanted to be more and chose to perform than to just present.
I was also thinking along those points.
Honestly though its not an exaggeration when one says that thats all anyone wants to do anymore. Because it seriously is.
ALL magic videos submitted now,whether on T11 or straight youtube, are all card magic and absolutely nothing else. all claiming to be street magic for some reason though.
The only people who expand outside are,I guess we'd say,old schoolers. And the guys who go way beyond are Dan Hauss and chris lafferty(with real random a$$ objects not just other props)
Cards are great conveyers of magic if used sparingly. But the way I see them performed now are as safe zones. You dont have to say much to get whats happening. And the spectators dont "have" to look at you,just the cards.
And they take less imagination to perform with.
I'm thinking about the word magic right now, and I wouldn't call several of these people magician but rather just a card technician or card magician at the most.
When was magic classified into cards and money? Yes there are rubberbands but apparently we are now classifying everyday objects into groups now. I don't understand why as rubberbands are apparently incredibly easy to manipulate now, why not other things we see in everyday life. Why not more with Shoes, pens, cellphones (Not the apple products and things unrelated to cards), nature.
Yes there are some but not enough, it seems everybody is finding more and more to do with the same old thing. I am no creator in new effects, more so just presentation and stories than anything. I'm going to make an attempt to find every everyday object magic that works.
When was magic classified into cards and money? Yes there are rubberbands but apparently we are now classifying everyday objects into groups now. I don't understand why as rubberbands are apparently incredibly easy to manipulate now, why not other things we see in everyday life. Why not more with Shoes, pens, cellphones (Not the apple products and things unrelated to cards), nature.
Yes there are some but not enough, it seems everybody is finding more and more to do with the same old thing. I am no creator in new effects, more so just presentation and stories than anything. I'm going to make an attempt to find every everyday object magic that works.
Sherlock-
I agree I would say there is a definite difference between magicians who specialize in cards (D+M) and then 'card guys' (youtube magicians).
Visual-
To answer your question with your average card guy I could only guess that these particular type of people are only focused on the technical aspect of a trick. As soon as they got that down they hunt for the next hot new move. Its always something that they are looking for outside of themselves. They make videos to try to impress other magicians but knowing that its for other magicians they'd feel silly committing to any kind of plot or showmanship because they expect their audience to know what is really going on. So from that perspective they only see the vids as displays of technical ability. That could explain why so many performances are lackluster. They don't create because they take every trick learned at face value and have no desire to create.
Card guys are like the cover bands of the magic world. Wait, no. People that can actually perform but do it verbatim to how they learned it are the cover bands. Card guys are the drunk girl singing karaoke of the magic world.
I think we all go through different phases like technical learning, performing, and creating but your garden variety youtube card guy is stuck in tech phase. He learns all the moves in a trick, records it, his card guy friends say 'cool' and he moves on.
I would say all of this could be applied to any other type of magic as well. Just like there are card guys there are coin guys, mentalism guys etc. If you are constantly searching for new material because you aren't getting good reactions then you won't get anywhere until you realize your problem is how you're doing it, not what.
I agree I would say there is a definite difference between magicians who specialize in cards (D+M) and then 'card guys' (youtube magicians).
Visual-
To answer your question with your average card guy I could only guess that these particular type of people are only focused on the technical aspect of a trick. As soon as they got that down they hunt for the next hot new move. Its always something that they are looking for outside of themselves. They make videos to try to impress other magicians but knowing that its for other magicians they'd feel silly committing to any kind of plot or showmanship because they expect their audience to know what is really going on. So from that perspective they only see the vids as displays of technical ability. That could explain why so many performances are lackluster. They don't create because they take every trick learned at face value and have no desire to create.
Card guys are like the cover bands of the magic world. Wait, no. People that can actually perform but do it verbatim to how they learned it are the cover bands. Card guys are the drunk girl singing karaoke of the magic world.
I think we all go through different phases like technical learning, performing, and creating but your garden variety youtube card guy is stuck in tech phase. He learns all the moves in a trick, records it, his card guy friends say 'cool' and he moves on.
I would say all of this could be applied to any other type of magic as well. Just like there are card guys there are coin guys, mentalism guys etc. If you are constantly searching for new material because you aren't getting good reactions then you won't get anywhere until you realize your problem is how you're doing it, not what.
Just to add, d+M probably uses the gambling cop more than any one magician before him. It's a move he loves, and can create with. He didn't learn it, apply it to one trick, and move on. He took the move and mastered it, from one card to an entire deck, he can perform with it.
The same could be said about many magicians, if you view the work of any one accomplished master you will see trends in their work, certain moves and ideas that come up again and again and again, the ones that work for them, the ones they cultivated through practice.
Any one move is nifty, knowing 50 of them is fun, mastering one of them is...well a life-long process. (Look at Chris Kenner and the SWE Shift)
Reading Mike Hankin's post reminded me of Time To Be Awesome with Michael Ammar, who when he was doing entire VHS sets on coins (or cards, or whatever) he would wake up thinking about just coins. He would then go 10-12 hours in his day thinking about coins. He would go through this routine everyday for however long (years) until the work on coins was done. He then moved to Cups and Balls, Cards, or whatever else he was working on.
That is dedication that I don't have the time for...which separates the masters from everyone else.
What a topic! Looks like everyone has a dog in this fight.
I think that part of the issue here is that magicians tend to look at the magic scene as a whole, which is where sentiments like "everyone is doing card magic" and "card tricks are old news" come from. The simple fact of the matter is that as far as the average layperson goes, card magic is just as novel and impactful as any other branch of magic - they are not aware of the big picture like we are.
I certainly won't dispute that it would be cool and impressive to do totally organic magic; refilling a bottle of windex or causing your friend's box of fries to refil with the wave of a hand. However, I think it is safe to say that unless you're willing to put in an awful lot of work, these effects belong more to the realm of fantasy than reality. And please, don't come back to me with "but magic is all about making fantasy a reality!"; in this world, magic is about creating the illusion of the impossible - there are limits to what is practical within this context.
I think Haunter has been making some excellent points which haven't recieved enough attention; in particular his earlier post regarding the learning process and how it applies to the rest of your magic in general is excellent food for thought, as he is describing the process of a thinking magician who is progressing in the art. It is difficult to argue with the idea that there are fundamental skills and experience which form a common "core" for an accomplished magician, regardless of their chosen speciality - those of showmanship, routining, audience interaction, character, pacing, misdirection, an understanding of structural techniques, an understanding of the audience's thought process....etc, etc. etc.
I would argue that developing these core skills is far more important than what props you use (and I'll agree again with Haunter in that if you stick to one set of props you will most likely achieve these more important advancements more efficiently). If cards are what fascinate you, then there's nothing wrong with specialising in card magic - the same for mentalism, coins or organic magic.
It seems to me that your problem isn't with card tricks, but rather with people who aren't striving to be anything more than just a guy who knows a few tricks - a frustration which is understandable if you take your magic seriously. Card magic recieves the most abuse because its easy to do card tricks; as the saying goes, "easy to learn, but a lifetime to master". Its also much easier to go about creating a card trick (no one said anything about the trick being any GOOD!), so you then get a lot of bad card tricks flooding the market, and things go from bad to worse. However, at the end of the day it is very simple; if you are an engaging performer then you will perform good magic, and no-one will care what props you use. If however you want to be seen as some kind of demi-god who can bend the world to his whim ("appearing cheeseburger" magic), then that is a very different quest indeed. The closest I've seen to a professional close-up entertainer achieving this sort of magic in practical terms is Marc Oberon - check out the video on his website and you'll see what I mean!
Cheers,
David.
I think that part of the issue here is that magicians tend to look at the magic scene as a whole, which is where sentiments like "everyone is doing card magic" and "card tricks are old news" come from. The simple fact of the matter is that as far as the average layperson goes, card magic is just as novel and impactful as any other branch of magic - they are not aware of the big picture like we are.
I certainly won't dispute that it would be cool and impressive to do totally organic magic; refilling a bottle of windex or causing your friend's box of fries to refil with the wave of a hand. However, I think it is safe to say that unless you're willing to put in an awful lot of work, these effects belong more to the realm of fantasy than reality. And please, don't come back to me with "but magic is all about making fantasy a reality!"; in this world, magic is about creating the illusion of the impossible - there are limits to what is practical within this context.
I think Haunter has been making some excellent points which haven't recieved enough attention; in particular his earlier post regarding the learning process and how it applies to the rest of your magic in general is excellent food for thought, as he is describing the process of a thinking magician who is progressing in the art. It is difficult to argue with the idea that there are fundamental skills and experience which form a common "core" for an accomplished magician, regardless of their chosen speciality - those of showmanship, routining, audience interaction, character, pacing, misdirection, an understanding of structural techniques, an understanding of the audience's thought process....etc, etc. etc.
I would argue that developing these core skills is far more important than what props you use (and I'll agree again with Haunter in that if you stick to one set of props you will most likely achieve these more important advancements more efficiently). If cards are what fascinate you, then there's nothing wrong with specialising in card magic - the same for mentalism, coins or organic magic.
It seems to me that your problem isn't with card tricks, but rather with people who aren't striving to be anything more than just a guy who knows a few tricks - a frustration which is understandable if you take your magic seriously. Card magic recieves the most abuse because its easy to do card tricks; as the saying goes, "easy to learn, but a lifetime to master". Its also much easier to go about creating a card trick (no one said anything about the trick being any GOOD!), so you then get a lot of bad card tricks flooding the market, and things go from bad to worse. However, at the end of the day it is very simple; if you are an engaging performer then you will perform good magic, and no-one will care what props you use. If however you want to be seen as some kind of demi-god who can bend the world to his whim ("appearing cheeseburger" magic), then that is a very different quest indeed. The closest I've seen to a professional close-up entertainer achieving this sort of magic in practical terms is Marc Oberon - check out the video on his website and you'll see what I mean!
Cheers,
David.
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I think people who strive for cards don't understand what's out there. Reverhart put into a post about how people actually comment on him not doing just card effects all the time.
For a formal scene I would probably stick to incredibly basic materials that I know I can work with. However, you don't always perform formally, nor have your cards. Well cheeseburger time suckassss, how randomly awesome would that be for food that every red blooded and cold blooded american loves.
I went out a few nights ago with some buddies and one of them asked if I could perform a little something. Well there wasn't anything for my mentalism material sadly, no paper, no nothing. I was thinking to myself, is this really it? I have no cards or other props I need to perform magic.
I was a bit ashamed and just said maybe later, I certainly couldn't say "I don't have any cards on me sorry" as that would look like a utter failure. While you are true that the audiences you perform for aren't looking at the big picture, what do you think they would enjoy more, a TNR fish or a Tivo?
For a formal scene I would probably stick to incredibly basic materials that I know I can work with. However, you don't always perform formally, nor have your cards. Well cheeseburger time suckassss, how randomly awesome would that be for food that every red blooded and cold blooded american loves.
I went out a few nights ago with some buddies and one of them asked if I could perform a little something. Well there wasn't anything for my mentalism material sadly, no paper, no nothing. I was thinking to myself, is this really it? I have no cards or other props I need to perform magic.
I was a bit ashamed and just said maybe later, I certainly couldn't say "I don't have any cards on me sorry" as that would look like a utter failure. While you are true that the audiences you perform for aren't looking at the big picture, what do you think they would enjoy more, a TNR fish or a Tivo?
I ran into the same situation the other night after a basketball game, no cards.
I ended up dong crazy man handcuffs with an animal bracket and a hair band. it actually worked great. then someone pulled out bridged size Florida backed cards. I used those, wasn't too bad.
Foolzsight-My thoughts exactly. His different applications of the cop is a perfect example of making the most out of one move. There is always a little something more to learn from a move, a trick, a routine etc. as long as you are looking for it.
Shodan-Thanks for the support! I'm new here and read a lot more often than I post. So some people may skim over my posts based on that alone. Or it may be a hard time taking anything seriously from a guy with a pokemon avatar Especially considering how lengthy some of my posts can be. At any rate, I understand earning the respect of the community is a process and I'm okay with that.
Anyway, I'd say you hit the nail on the head. The cards are just a tool. Just like coins, loops, doves, silks, swami gimmicks, cheeseburgers, fish, leaves and so on. The medium you choose to create a moment is neither here nor there. All that matters is the moment. In the end how you made a person feel is going to resonate within them so much stronger than what you used to get there.
I believe this problem being discussed about "card guys" is a universal problem with people getting into magic. Its just so much more apparent with cards because card magic is the most popular form right now.
Sherlock-
"However, you don't always perform formally, nor have your cards. Well cheeseburger time suckassss"
I definitely have a deck of cards in my pocket much more often than I do a concealed cheeseburger
Not downplaying the idea of the trick by any means. It sounds awesome. I also think "Cheeseburger time suckasssss" is one of the most quotable things I've read in a while.
Every branch of magic is going to have its own nuances and situations where its more practical than another form. They all have their own merits, flaws and more importantly, lessons to teach you. So while I think you'd be doing yourself a great disservice by only ever sticking to one type of magic, I feel that you should first pick the one (-any- one) you find the most interesting and concentrate on making the most of it first.
Shodan-Thanks for the support! I'm new here and read a lot more often than I post. So some people may skim over my posts based on that alone. Or it may be a hard time taking anything seriously from a guy with a pokemon avatar
Especially considering how lengthy some of my posts can be. At any rate, I understand earning the respect of the community is a process and I'm okay with that.Anyway, I'd say you hit the nail on the head. The cards are just a tool. Just like coins, loops, doves, silks, swami gimmicks, cheeseburgers, fish, leaves and so on. The medium you choose to create a moment is neither here nor there. All that matters is the moment. In the end how you made a person feel is going to resonate within them so much stronger than what you used to get there.
I believe this problem being discussed about "card guys" is a universal problem with people getting into magic. Its just so much more apparent with cards because card magic is the most popular form right now.
Sherlock-
"However, you don't always perform formally, nor have your cards. Well cheeseburger time suckassss"
I definitely have a deck of cards in my pocket much more often than I do a concealed cheeseburger
Not downplaying the idea of the trick by any means. It sounds awesome. I also think "Cheeseburger time suckasssss" is one of the most quotable things I've read in a while.
Every branch of magic is going to have its own nuances and situations where its more practical than another form. They all have their own merits, flaws and more importantly, lessons to teach you. So while I think you'd be doing yourself a great disservice by only ever sticking to one type of magic, I feel that you should first pick the one (-any- one) you find the most interesting and concentrate on making the most of it first.
I don't really feel the need to add anything to what I've already said here, other than to say that I think my posts have joined Haunter's in not being adequately addressed!
Haunter, congratulations on your well-reasoned posts; unfortunately, they do tend to get overlooked - not because you're new, but because they require too much investment to digest and respond to!
Cheers,
David,
Haunter, congratulations on your well-reasoned posts; unfortunately, they do tend to get overlooked - not because you're new, but because they require too much investment to digest and respond to!
Cheers,
David,
so...I had to go through the entire thread...read almost every post and then re-read again the first and here are my thoughts
right now I´m creating my first PDF in magic "The Panik Manifesto" is a booklet with magic I created and I realize something...when I started to write it I realize that there was only card magic and I didn´t care, then I started testing all the effects in the booklet and they were great, I got great reactions and good things with it. but I just felt that it wasn´t enough
the people here that says that card magic is enough to book gigs or be succesful are not listening to their spectators (unless of course you are Juan Tamariz or Aaron Fisher) because they love card magic...but they also love to see other kind of magic, magic with everyday objects or magic that doesn´t need words, just magic.
card magic is great!! but unless has some meaning or a reason of why it should be looked as magic and not a "fast hands" trick is what can make your card magic great or just a card trick....see the difference?...Card Magic and Card Trick are not the same
about the Manifesto...well I stopped creating card magic and just perfected the one I already have, perfected my sleights and flourish more (well not for spectators but for my own personal complacency hehe) and started to create magic with other things...so far I got some tricks with Nails,Fire,Gum,Coins,Paper,Mentalism and now I got half and half with card tricks and other tricks
I realized that if you want to have some success (I know some people here consider hobbists, but they do book some gigs sometimes) you need more magic with other things...think about it, if you were an spectator with absolute no knowledge about card magic and sleights...would like to see a 1 hour show with just cards?
just my thoughts....
I don't think they'd want to see an hour of any ONE thing. No matter what subject you major in at "magic college", most of your audience won't want to see a full hour of just that.
The problem with your youtube 'card guys' isn't their tool its their mentality. I feel that is the real issue here. If they change the prop you'd just have something different to look at while they do a crappy version of a trick you probably like.
Honestly, a lot of them are just noobs. Literally, just new to magic. Its understandable, there is so much material teaching tricks and very little in the dvds concerning the theory behind it or the magicians feelings on it. I implore you inventors, talk about it more. Sprinkle that stuff on your tricks I love it.
Visual-Correct me if I'm wrong. I think your post has a lot less to do with the cards themselves and a lot more to do with the 'inside the box' thinking that they are so often associated with yes? We could probably tl;dr this whole thread as "Dear noobs, stop taking every trick you learn at face value alone. Stop being crappy magicians. Stop doing crappy magic. Love, the theory11 community."
Its both actually.
The hardcore infatuation everyone has with cards and how mediocre that branch has become in the past 5 or 6 years. And what you said as well.
Card magic is getting sleightier,less magical,more masterbatory,and almost doesnt make a lick of sense anymore.