I never insulted anybody.I only pointed out the faults that the above mentioned persons did , which is failing to ensure quality that is promised.
theory11 Deck Criticism
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I never insulted anybody.I only pointed out the faults that the above mentioned persons did , which is failing to ensure quality that is promised.
I quote a fellow member at decknique :
This pretty sums up what kind of promises T11 has broken and what kind of lies T11 tells us about their decks.I don't really care if T11 and its customers are 69295.968% satisfied from Steroid Angels to not-so-custom design of a casino deck with logos deleted to Turkey Backs , I still got bad quality decks , and first impressions are very important.Riddle me on that.
This pretty sums up what kind of promises T11 has broken and what kind of lies T11 tells us about their decks.I don't really care if T11 and its customers are 69295.968% satisfied from Steroid Angels to not-so-custom design of a casino deck with logos deleted to Turkey Backs , I still got bad quality decks , and first impressions are very important.Riddle me on that.
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still your opinion. You're being way too over general.
You're doing the equivalent of stereotyping. If you applied to humans the same thought pattern you are applying to these cards, it would be called racism and xenophobia.
Yes, you did, don't try and weasel out of it. I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion, or those of the DN person you've quoted. But that's not the issue.
You've branded anyone who disagrees with you a fanboy. You've also essentially accused all T11 artists of being greedy, rich trash. That is also insulting. You have no idea how any one of them lives, and have no factual basis for your claims. They have nothing to do with your complaints. Being a fanboy has nothing to do with quality control. Living standards have nothing to do with quality control. Your gripe is with the product, and the job that T11 have done with it. That makes your statements unsubstantiated insults, not fact. As you can see from the replies, some people do actually agree with you. Some people have had similar experiences. Stop systematically mixing valid observations with unrestrained stupidity, and your opinion will hold more weight.
What are you parameters ? I doubt you can prove me that I was insulting even if you break down what I said letter by letter.
When ?
Don't try to reject the truth , just look at the Buck Brothers and some Theory11 artists , they are obviously rich. Why ? Just look at their standards of living , and because they hype false things about their products (basis is their decks/products are not as good as they claimed to be , same as T11) in order to maximise profits.Please refer to the way D&D sold their Wynns for the first time.They reduced the price without hesitation and therefore provides a hint that the price is only so as to maximise profts(saying that it is out of respect is a pathetic excuse).
An opinion is an opinion no matter how 'mixed' with other elements.Never can an opinion be 'righter' than another or be more valid than the other.
Whatever, ellusionist fanboy. Go back to that forum and cry about t11 decks. I am sure you will get sympathy from all the E fanboys instead of people actually trying to level with you and explain why your views are jaded.
Oh also: "Theory 11 can delete this thread , ban me (sad way to get rid of me) , edit the 'bad' parts , fanboys can bash me but that will only get rid of what I think is constructive criticism"
Most of what you listed is something that Ellusionist would do. Also you imply that anyone who disagrees with you is a fanboy.
Yay, go E where you can't say your true opinions if it has the word Damn in it.
Personally, I like both places deck wise. I just dislike the people, same goes with some here as well.
Anyway, back to the pathetic thread. Also for the record, my guardians still fan perfectly after eight months of use.
Edit:
Who uses the word Thrice anymore?
"I had to spring, riffle shuffle and waterfall the rock hard deck more than thrice and to get each card to separate itself from another."
I smell a lemonbird
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The real irony is how virulent your attacks are. There is certainly no problem with liking UV500s or Auroras over the T11 brands. Each will handle a bit differently. Depending on many of the factors JM has previously mentioned, heat, humidity, transporting conditions, your own natural oils in your skin, and even what type of hand moisturizer you use, you will notice that the final varnishes used on different cards will react a bit differently. That is enough cause to have personal favorites but not enough cause to claim definitely that one card is better than the other. Add to that that some people like softer flexing or harder flexing cards depending on their personal style and you should have plenty of sound solid reasons to prefer one deck over the other that no one can argue with. What I think rubs people wrong is your pretentious attitude that other who have come to different but equally valid decisions on deck selections are doing so because they are "Fanboys" or caught up by hype. Are you kidding me? The Arcane deck have been some of the most hyped cards in magic history! And here is where your argument really falls flat. Arcane, Propagandas, Centurions, UV500s....They are all, every single one of them, made by the same company! The United States Playing Card Company! Hearing your attacks is like someone claiming a person is a fanboy because they like the McDonnalds 1/4 pounders more than a Big Mac! Sure they taste different but in the end of the day they are made by the same company.
If you really want your opinion about cards to be taken seriously then you might want to broaden your experience base a bit. USPCC makes a damn fine card when they want to but they have had lots of success making cards of a certain type. They are willing to stray a bit from their center line formula for success but not to much. Why don't you try out some cards that are radically different in flex feel and performance characteristics. Check out what Offason, Fournier, Piatnik, Waddington's ect. I can't guarantee you will like any of those companies but at least it would give you a broader base of understanding how cards can be made and what makes them tick. Then you can make some more informed decisions about what cards are good for what performance conditions. Until you learn a bit more about cards in general I'm afraid you just sound like a fanboy accusing others of being a fanboy...as Prea put it...the pot calling the kettle black.
If you really want your opinion about cards to be taken seriously then you might want to broaden your experience base a bit. USPCC makes a damn fine card when they want to but they have had lots of success making cards of a certain type. They are willing to stray a bit from their center line formula for success but not to much. Why don't you try out some cards that are radically different in flex feel and performance characteristics. Check out what Offason, Fournier, Piatnik, Waddington's ect. I can't guarantee you will like any of those companies but at least it would give you a broader base of understanding how cards can be made and what makes them tick. Then you can make some more informed decisions about what cards are good for what performance conditions. Until you learn a bit more about cards in general I'm afraid you just sound like a fanboy accusing others of being a fanboy...as Prea put it...the pot calling the kettle black.
Hi Mr. 37 -
Actually, do you mind if I call you M? I don't want to be too formal.
I like E decks, I'm a big fanman (as oppose to fanboy) of their cards. However, I was pretty critical in the way they hyped up the Arcanes. I was impressed with how they slowly and painfully drove up the hype till every zombie magician there was drooling on themselves and sleeping by their mailboxes at night waiting for their deck.
I wasn't critical of the necessity for the hype, I was critical of how this really doesn't help magicians get better. But none the less, I still like their deck quality and to be honest I don't see a big difference between their decks and the T11 decks.
That being said, I can't invalidate your experience but I can tell you that 90% of the time I either use Guardians or the red Wynns. Now that the Wynns are out of print, recently I've just been using Guardians. I have had decks of Guardians that clump but most of them do not and are really great decks.
That's my experience and I perform with them a lot, I'm not a collector by any stretch so this is real life performing in real life setting. Cards don't last forever, they really aren't even meant to last a month if people touch them a lot. Overall I like the look of the Guardians better than most any other deck, which is why I use these as my main deck for performance.
And btw: After all the hype over the Arcanes, there were a good number of early reviews that talked about the poor quality of some of the decks that went out. And do you know what the responses were by E to those criticisms? Yep, you guessed it, exactly the responses you got from T11 on here.
The point is, both companies are businesses and they sell to make money and to stay in business. Both companies have excellent customer service, better than most businesses I've witnessed and both have done a lot to move the "coolness" factor of magic forward.
So M, don't be so quick to be bitter about those who make money off of good ideas. You just end up sounding jealous and small.
Actually, do you mind if I call you M? I don't want to be too formal.
I like E decks, I'm a big fanman (as oppose to fanboy) of their cards. However, I was pretty critical in the way they hyped up the Arcanes. I was impressed with how they slowly and painfully drove up the hype till every zombie magician there was drooling on themselves and sleeping by their mailboxes at night waiting for their deck.
I wasn't critical of the necessity for the hype, I was critical of how this really doesn't help magicians get better. But none the less, I still like their deck quality and to be honest I don't see a big difference between their decks and the T11 decks.
That being said, I can't invalidate your experience but I can tell you that 90% of the time I either use Guardians or the red Wynns. Now that the Wynns are out of print, recently I've just been using Guardians. I have had decks of Guardians that clump but most of them do not and are really great decks.
That's my experience and I perform with them a lot, I'm not a collector by any stretch so this is real life performing in real life setting. Cards don't last forever, they really aren't even meant to last a month if people touch them a lot. Overall I like the look of the Guardians better than most any other deck, which is why I use these as my main deck for performance.
And btw: After all the hype over the Arcanes, there were a good number of early reviews that talked about the poor quality of some of the decks that went out. And do you know what the responses were by E to those criticisms? Yep, you guessed it, exactly the responses you got from T11 on here.
The point is, both companies are businesses and they sell to make money and to stay in business. Both companies have excellent customer service, better than most businesses I've witnessed and both have done a lot to move the "coolness" factor of magic forward.
So M, don't be so quick to be bitter about those who make money off of good ideas. You just end up sounding jealous and small.
Uh, yeah, you did insult quite a few people actually. Saying "so called artists" and "so called card experts". They aren't just "so called" they ARE artists, and ARE card experts. You've never heard of Chris Kenner, author of Totally Out of Control? He's one of these "so called artists" that you speak of.
These card experts and artists have some authority on the subject and know what they are talking about.
I'd like to know what your definition of the perfect deck is, as nothing is perfect. Can you name one? I'm sure I can name a flaw in your "perfect" deck.
I'm done feeding the troll, how about you guys?
I just did.
When did you call everyone a fanboy?
How about... Here:
Also, here:
Don't forget here:
Ok. I'm done. Just kidding! Don't forget about here:
Your thinking has crossed so far across the chasm of logical argument that I refuse to dignify such a void of intelligence with an answer, except to say this: Saying so doesn't make it true.
Completely untrue.
Some people believe the Holocaust never happened. Do you think this is a correct opinion? How do you compare this with someone who holds the opinion that millions of Jews were victimised during this terrible period of humanity.
Some people believe in slavery, racism, torture and misogyny. Do you think these opinions hold as much weight as those who believe that all humans are born equal? Which opinion do you think is more correct?
Some people hold the opinion that the Earth is flat. Do you think that this opinion is right? Do you think there are other, more valid opinions? Do you believe that those opinions are valid?
Some people held the opinion that the world would end on 06/06/06. It did not happen. What about this view?
Think, before you say something and make a fool of yourself.
Besides that... What pretty much everyone else said. And before you imply so - I'm not a T11 fanboy. If you want proof, read my numerous posts. I'm more than happy to be critical of products, people, policy, and attitude, and can think of at least one instance in which I was vocally critical of each of the above.
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for M
PROJECT ONE
Step 1: Print out a copy of this entire thread.
Step 2: Save print out and re-read it 15 years later.
Step 3: Realize how you contradict yourself, how invalid your approach to the situation was.
Step 4: Laugh at how young and stupid you used to be.
PROJECT TWO
Step 1: Same as project one.
Step 2: Take the print out and show it to MBA, Marketing, and Advertising professors at a nearby university.
Step 3: Listen to what they tell you about how the business world works.
Step 4: Same as project one.
PROJECT ONE
Step 1: Print out a copy of this entire thread.
Step 2: Save print out and re-read it 15 years later.
Step 3: Realize how you contradict yourself, how invalid your approach to the situation was.
Step 4: Laugh at how young and stupid you used to be.
PROJECT TWO
Step 1: Same as project one.
Step 2: Take the print out and show it to MBA, Marketing, and Advertising professors at a nearby university.
Step 3: Listen to what they tell you about how the business world works.
Step 4: Same as project one.
Guys,
Just a reminder to remain as courteous and professional as possible when posting. We welcome all opinions - so long as they are stated in a manner that is both intelligent and respectful to our community.
Thanks in advance! Feel free to continue the discussion.
Just a reminder to remain as courteous and professional as possible when posting. We welcome all opinions - so long as they are stated in a manner that is both intelligent and respectful to our community.
Thanks in advance! Feel free to continue the discussion.
A deck of cards . . . help a magician improve on his skills?
Hmmm.
Still waiting for a pm Jonny.
To make my posts simple , the T11 decks I bought did not meet what I call 'standards' , which are the quality of Tally Ho decks and Bicycle Rider Backs.The T11 decks I got did not meet standards in terms of handling , quality , and design(turkey backs and casino deck with logos removed for example).My family of 3 generations and I have handled cards far longer than any of you so your claims of me not knowing how to handle cards properly is baseless.
The majority of T11 decks have been falsely hyped according to the decks I have bought.Lying isn't much of a difference from false hyping.
T11 claims that their decks are the 'best' in their pages , which obviously isn't true.Refer to my first paragraph.
The T11 decks did not meet the my standards , which are the Tally Ho No.9s and Bicycle Rider Backs 808s in terms of handling , durability and design (turkey backs and casino decks with logos deleted , anyone ?).
My family 3 generations and I have handled cards far longer than any of you so I know what is a bad deck and what is a good deck.Saying that I do not know how to handle cards is completely baseless and holds only loose ends.
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