Thoughts on move monkeys
- Thread starter UnknownMagician93
- Start date
why do pianists learn to do diminished 7th arpeggios?
it's good for your technique.
I never do raise rise. I spent 4 months learning the ambitious raiser move. Did i add it to my repetoire? no. But, do i now have a much stronger and sensitive pinky that enhances my pinky counting? Yes.
I learnt Aaron Fisher's one hand popover move. I never use it. But before I learnt it, my clipshift liked to shout. After I learnt it, you can't even hear my clipshift whisper.
It's good for your technique.
it's good for your technique.
I never do raise rise. I spent 4 months learning the ambitious raiser move. Did i add it to my repetoire? no. But, do i now have a much stronger and sensitive pinky that enhances my pinky counting? Yes.
I learnt Aaron Fisher's one hand popover move. I never use it. But before I learnt it, my clipshift liked to shout. After I learnt it, you can't even hear my clipshift whisper.
It's good for your technique.
I've performed professionally since I was 15 years old. I've actually been fortunate enough to tour the country and perform overseas. I personally take pride in my work and accomplishments and do consider myself a well-rounded, knowledgeable magician. So with that said, it is hilarious how ridiculously simple my professional repertoire is. When performing for the real world, the amount of sleights you know and execute really doesn't matter at all. In fact, I've seen some phenomenal magicians entertain an entire room using nothing more than a Rising Card Deck, Scotch and Soda set and a Thumb Tip. Laypeople couldn't care less about your sleight arsenal; they simply want to be entertained by what you have to offer. And professionally speaking-- sleights aren't entertaining. The performer is. Keep in mind David Blaine became famous and spawned a totally different magic scene by exploiting dead simple magic and an effective, unique character.
Before I continue, I should admit there really isn't anything wrong with studying sleight-of-hand passionately. I know quite a few "move monkeys," myself, and they're mostly all good people. I admire their patience and creativity for studying and tweaking and inventing hundreds of moves as often as possible. If that's how they enjoy the craft, then good on them. I'm glad they take something gratifying from it. However-- technical skill doesn't make a good magician. In fact, I would argue it only takes up a very minute percentage of one-- perhaps less than 10%. If a person can't engage a crowded room for ten minutes without using magic at all, I would argue that person doesn't yet have the chops to be a legitimate magic performer.
Inflated ego is a major pet peeve of mine. I occasionally find that some move monkeys believe they're better than working magicians because they know more ways to control a card or false shuffle a deck. That's an absurd claim, especially if the individual can't engagingly share what he knows with the audience. Move-monkeys and cardists are of a differennt breed than magicians and performers. Honestly, I don't believe the two classes are comparable. It's apples and oranges. I wouldn't necessarily say one is more important than the other, but it's frustrating when a casual hobbyist thinks they're better than an experienced performer who's putting dinner on the table by working for real people.
In gathering, I guess I agree with praetoritevong's point of view. I personally just value the performance and presentation of magic moreso than the technical aspect of it. I have nothing against those who respectfully practice and hone their skills in sleight-of-hand and cardistry, but I don't think it's fair to say that good skill necessarily equals good magic. All too often, I find the opposite is true. Although learning new sleights and techniques is admittedly fun and exciting, I believe performance and presentation should be more emphasized in the magic community.
RS.
Before I continue, I should admit there really isn't anything wrong with studying sleight-of-hand passionately. I know quite a few "move monkeys," myself, and they're mostly all good people. I admire their patience and creativity for studying and tweaking and inventing hundreds of moves as often as possible. If that's how they enjoy the craft, then good on them. I'm glad they take something gratifying from it. However-- technical skill doesn't make a good magician. In fact, I would argue it only takes up a very minute percentage of one-- perhaps less than 10%. If a person can't engage a crowded room for ten minutes without using magic at all, I would argue that person doesn't yet have the chops to be a legitimate magic performer.
Inflated ego is a major pet peeve of mine. I occasionally find that some move monkeys believe they're better than working magicians because they know more ways to control a card or false shuffle a deck. That's an absurd claim, especially if the individual can't engagingly share what he knows with the audience. Move-monkeys and cardists are of a differennt breed than magicians and performers. Honestly, I don't believe the two classes are comparable. It's apples and oranges. I wouldn't necessarily say one is more important than the other, but it's frustrating when a casual hobbyist thinks they're better than an experienced performer who's putting dinner on the table by working for real people.
In gathering, I guess I agree with praetoritevong's point of view. I personally just value the performance and presentation of magic moreso than the technical aspect of it. I have nothing against those who respectfully practice and hone their skills in sleight-of-hand and cardistry, but I don't think it's fair to say that good skill necessarily equals good magic. All too often, I find the opposite is true. Although learning new sleights and techniques is admittedly fun and exciting, I believe performance and presentation should be more emphasized in the magic community.
RS.
Last edited by a moderator:
Not much to add after romeo's thoughtful and well considered post. However, I would like to also throw in an argument about "finite time"; you have only so much time you can spend developing yourself as a magician, so necessarily what you DO practise subtracts from would you COULD be practising.
My goal since I started performing professionally has been to develop an original repertoire of "real world" magic. I started caring about this when I realised that the most fun I could possibly have in magic was performing for real people - so it didn't make sense NOT to spend my time working on tricks and sleights that worked in the real world. As for the "original repertoire", well again I get a serious buzz out of knowing that it was my work that caused that reaction.
However, since I invest all my practise time to developing this material (or of course studying the work of other magicians in order to inspire my own) I simply haven't had time to work on all the flashy stuff - things like raise rise, or even the clipshift. They don't help me towards my goals.
If your goal in magic is simply to master as many sleights and techniques as you can, then that's what you should spend your time developing. However, if like me you enjoy performing in the real world more than anything else, then it only makes sense to direct your energy there.
Cheers,
David.
My goal since I started performing professionally has been to develop an original repertoire of "real world" magic. I started caring about this when I realised that the most fun I could possibly have in magic was performing for real people - so it didn't make sense NOT to spend my time working on tricks and sleights that worked in the real world. As for the "original repertoire", well again I get a serious buzz out of knowing that it was my work that caused that reaction.
However, since I invest all my practise time to developing this material (or of course studying the work of other magicians in order to inspire my own) I simply haven't had time to work on all the flashy stuff - things like raise rise, or even the clipshift. They don't help me towards my goals.
If your goal in magic is simply to master as many sleights and techniques as you can, then that's what you should spend your time developing. However, if like me you enjoy performing in the real world more than anything else, then it only makes sense to direct your energy there.
Cheers,
David.
You remind me of the person who I despise.... Jennings..
Your new nickname is "Wide-Open Dan"
Being a move monkey DOESN'T mean that you come across every move and ractice it.... It just m eans that you love moves...
Doesn't mean you are working on stuff that you have no use for..
Every move can be used for something.
Dan, you really should start reading books other than "By Forces Unseen"
Your new nickname is "Wide-Open Dan"
Being a move monkey DOESN'T mean that you come across every move and ractice it.... It just m eans that you love moves...
Doesn't mean you are working on stuff that you have no use for..
Every move can be used for something.
Dan, you really should start reading books other than "By Forces Unseen"
Hmmm..that post didn't really make a vast amount of sense; certainly seems like you didn't get the point of my post at all! Also wondering why you seem to think I have some kind of obsession with By Forces Unseen!
Come back and try again when you've taken the time to actually read and understand my point.
Cheers,
Mildly-Bemused Dan
Come back and try again when you've taken the time to actually read and understand my point.
Cheers,
Mildly-Bemused Dan
Well I see what you are saying, the thing is you do not need to learn the raise rise move just for a pinky count, you could do finger excercise, and do pinky counts over and over again. My point, you do not need to master an insanely hard move for one small thing.
Really now that I think about it, move monkies should be called encyclopedias because for the most part they know the moves to accomplish a certain goal, get my jive? They are the ones you should go to when you are working on an effect that requires such and such of a move.
I think it really just depends on what your ultimate goals are in magic.
If you are hell bent on being the next Wayne Houchin then practicing, understanding, being able to teach, break down and get inside the head of the people who invented, and perform every move you can come across is a good thing. It builds your foundation of knowledge and gives you platforms to expand upon with your own material.
If you are a serious student of cards who entertains with just a simple deck like Jon Armstrong (or the like) then practicing a lot of moves is certainly worth while since it's just all that much more ammunition in your weapon of choice.
However, if you don't really focus your show on cards, or other complicated sleights, then practicing every move to perfection is probably a waste of your time.
I think there is a certain amount of knowledge that every magician should possess regardless of their chosen genre path (IE: Close Up, Stage, Freak, Mental, Etc) and most of those sleights can be learned in Tarbel, Royal Road, Card Colledge, Mark Wilsons Course in Magic, and Expert at the Card Table.
I also believe that the presentation of magic as a profession is just like a job in the medical or technological world; an ever evolving one. I think it's certainly good to stay up to current with new sleights, performers, moves, and etc. Doesn't mean you should be able to perform them flawlessly yourself, but you should be familular with them.
Just my two cents though.
If you are hell bent on being the next Wayne Houchin then practicing, understanding, being able to teach, break down and get inside the head of the people who invented, and perform every move you can come across is a good thing. It builds your foundation of knowledge and gives you platforms to expand upon with your own material.
If you are a serious student of cards who entertains with just a simple deck like Jon Armstrong (or the like) then practicing a lot of moves is certainly worth while since it's just all that much more ammunition in your weapon of choice.
However, if you don't really focus your show on cards, or other complicated sleights, then practicing every move to perfection is probably a waste of your time.
I think there is a certain amount of knowledge that every magician should possess regardless of their chosen genre path (IE: Close Up, Stage, Freak, Mental, Etc) and most of those sleights can be learned in Tarbel, Royal Road, Card Colledge, Mark Wilsons Course in Magic, and Expert at the Card Table.
I also believe that the presentation of magic as a profession is just like a job in the medical or technological world; an ever evolving one. I think it's certainly good to stay up to current with new sleights, performers, moves, and etc. Doesn't mean you should be able to perform them flawlessly yourself, but you should be familular with them.
Just my two cents though.