What do you do?

[praetoritevong]

Not true at all actually.

You CAN shut someone down in a nice manner. Think about it. Someone calls you on a double lift.

What do you say?

ANYTHING that you say is shutting them down, because you're not going to just say "yup, turned two."

So you must "prove them wrong" but do it so that you aren't really saying to them, "shut your mouth, stop talking, you're wrong, I'm right". You may ask them to show you, they decline nicely, and you continue.

You're just walking around saying everybody's opinion is garbage.

Is that so? How long have you known me? How many of my posts have you actually read? Why do you feel the need to support your "argument" with unsubstantiated personal criticism, for that matter? It doesn't say much for what you have to say.

I believe you're a little confused though. You can prove them wrong, and diffuse the situation, in a nice manner. Shutting someone down, on the other hand, by its very definition, is an aggressive action. For example: Performing a KM move diffuses the situation. You hand the card over. It's one card - easy. There is a huge difference between "shutting someone down" and "recovering". I'm not saying you can't recover from it. I am saying however that to challenge and potentially humiliate an audience member is irresponsible at best.

And that is all I'm arguing.

I don't say anything, really - because the problem is, they're right. I see no point in saying anything to challenge them. I find it inappropriate to challenge them verbally because really, you ****ed up, it's your fault. No need to take it out on the spectator.

Let's say you ask them to show you. What are you doing, exactly? You're challenging them. They cannot match. They feel inferior, perhaps embarrassed. You push them into a shell. Essentially, you cut someone down, and whether or not you say please is irrelevant. The essential action remains the same - you are increasing the rift between magician and audience. You make them look bad in front of their peers, perhaps even get a laugh at their expense. And why? Because you ****ed up.

Last time I checked, humiliating spectators because you screwed up isn't part of our job.

 

[Michael Kras]

Is that so? How long have you known me? How many of my posts have you actually read? Why do you feel the need to support your "argument" with unsubstantiated personal criticism, for that matter? It doesn't say much for what you have to say.

I believe you're a little confused though. You can prove them wrong, and diffuse the situation, in a nice manner. Shutting someone down, on the other hand, by its very definition, is an aggressive action. For example: Performing a KM move diffuses the situation. You hand the card over. It's one card - easy. There is a huge difference between "shutting someone down" and "recovering". I'm not saying you can't recover from it. I am saying however that to challenge and potentially humiliate an audience member is irresponsible at best.

And that is all I'm arguing.

I don't say anything, really - because the problem is, they're right. I see no point in saying anything to challenge them. I find it inappropriate to challenge them verbally because really, you ****ed up, it's your fault. No need to take it out on the spectator.

Let's say you ask them to show you. What are you doing, exactly? You're challenging them. They cannot match. They feel inferior, perhaps embarrassed. You push them into a shell. Essentially, you cut someone down, and whether or not you say please is irrelevant. The essential action remains the same - you are increasing the rift between magician and audience. You make them look bad in front of their peers, perhaps even get a laugh at their expense. And why? Because you ****ed up.

Last time I checked, humiliating spectators because you screwed up isn't part of our job.

A GOOD magician can call a specator out without degrading or embarassing him.

 

[Sean_Raf]

A good magician shouldn't have to, surely?

- Sean

 

[tally-ho]

A good magician shouldn't have to, surely?

- Sean

quoted for truth and supreme awesomeness.

 

[Michael Kras]

Every magician has his days, good or bad. There's even a clip circulating the internet of Dai Vernon screwing up on live television. Things happen, to everyone.

 

[Sean_Raf]

I wasn't talking about screwing up or that kind of thing, moreso the 'calling out' bit.

- Sean

 

[ReubenGazertheAmazer]

By shutting down I mean diffusing the situation and keeping your cool. You shut down the spectator from revealing your trick or ruining your performance but do not make him look like a complete fool. By calling out a sleight, he is already making himself seem aggresive and almost foolish to the rest of the group, as they probably just want to see the magic.

And sorry if you take the English language that literally, shutting down being synonomis with diffusing the situation, mis proving, etc.

Is that so? How long have you known me? How many of my posts have you actually read? Why do you feel the need to support your "argument" with unsubstantiated personal criticism, for that matter? It doesn't say much for what you have to say.

I believe you're a little confused though. You can prove them wrong, and diffuse the situation, in a nice manner. Shutting someone down, on the other hand, by its very definition, is an aggressive action. For example: Performing a KM move diffuses the situation. You hand the card over. It's one card - easy. There is a huge difference between "shutting someone down" and "recovering". I'm not saying you can't recover from it. I am saying however that to challenge and potentially humiliate an audience member is irresponsible at best.

And that is all I'm arguing.

I don't say anything, really - because the problem is, they're right. I see no point in saying anything to challenge them. I find it inappropriate to challenge them verbally because really, you ****ed up, it's your fault. No need to take it out on the spectator.

Let's say you ask them to show you. What are you doing, exactly? You're challenging them. They cannot match. They feel inferior, perhaps embarrassed. You push them into a shell. Essentially, you cut someone down, and whether or not you say please is irrelevant. The essential action remains the same - you are increasing the rift between magician and audience. You make them look bad in front of their peers, perhaps even get a laugh at their expense. And why? Because you ****ed up.

Last time I checked, humiliating spectators because you screwed up isn't part of our job.

 

[ReubenGazertheAmazer]

And, did you even read my post? What did you think "shutting them down NICELY" meant? I'm pretty sure I emphasized HUMILIATING A SPECTATOR is what we shouldn't do, in fact, read my post, I almost say that word for word. Don't need to make the same arguement I am.

And, sometimes a spectator will call you on a sleight even IF YOU DIDN'T SCREW UP. You're telling me that's never happened? It's called a heckler. Someone who thinks you peeked. Thinks you saw the card. Wants to always shuffle, etc.

If you screwed up, yes, YOUR FAULT, but if they are calling absurd things for nothing, NOT YOUR FAULT.

Is that so? How long have you known me? How many of my posts have you actually read? Why do you feel the need to support your "argument" with unsubstantiated personal criticism, for that matter? It doesn't say much for what you have to say.

I believe you're a little confused though. You can prove them wrong, and diffuse the situation, in a nice manner. Shutting someone down, on the other hand, by its very definition, is an aggressive action. For example: Performing a KM move diffuses the situation. You hand the card over. It's one card - easy. There is a huge difference between "shutting someone down" and "recovering". I'm not saying you can't recover from it. I am saying however that to challenge and potentially humiliate an audience member is irresponsible at best.

And that is all I'm arguing.

I don't say anything, really - because the problem is, they're right. I see no point in saying anything to challenge them. I find it inappropriate to challenge them verbally because really, you ****ed up, it's your fault. No need to take it out on the spectator.

Let's say you ask them to show you. What are you doing, exactly? You're challenging them. They cannot match. They feel inferior, perhaps embarrassed. You push them into a shell. Essentially, you cut someone down, and whether or not you say please is irrelevant. The essential action remains the same - you are increasing the rift between magician and audience. You make them look bad in front of their peers, perhaps even get a laugh at their expense. And why? Because you ****ed up.

Last time I checked, humiliating spectators because you screwed up isn't part of our job.

 

[Michael Kras]

I wasn't talking about screwing up or that kind of thing, moreso the 'calling out' bit.

- Sean

I'm sorry, I was moreso referring to heckling in general. Handling it without losing your cool and still looking like the professional.

 

[praetoritevong]

And, sometimes a spectator will call you on a sleight even IF YOU DIDN'T SCREW UP. You're telling me that's never happened? It's called a heckler. Someone who thinks you peeked. Thinks you saw the card. Wants to always shuffle, etc.

If you screwed up, yes, YOUR FAULT, but if they are calling absurd things for nothing, NOT YOUR FAULT.

That may well be so - as sciffydof gently pointed out some posts ago though, that's not really the topic at hand - we're talking about when you actually do screw up.

Glad to know we agree on some things, however. It does indeed depend on what sense of the phrase we're speaking in. The internet has its foibles.