Big Ass Box of Magic Question...

[WitchDocIsIn]

Not entirely, no. That's a way to get rid of the customer, at this point. If he had basically opened with a sincere apology, offer to fix the situation, then followed up with an offer of refund, I'm guessing they would have been disappointed but not angry.

However, complaints were initially met with, "Well, we're glad other people like it." That is not a response, that's a dismissal. Repeated e-mails being ignored is absolutely a no-no in customer service. Coming on here and basically saying, "Welp, can't please everyone," is not a response, it's a dismissal. Having posts deleted without addressing them is another no-no. Deleting comments on YouTube, yet another no-no. Calling a customer that has sent in a polite e-mail rude and telling them that their business is not desired is bad customer service.

Basically, the tone I'm getting from this interaction is Sankey & Co. giving these complaints the middle finger, and saying, "Fine, get out. We don't want you." Ok, sure, that's a valid response I guess. I mean, as long as you don't want to keep customers.

Do I think some people over reacted? Absolutely. Would I have shown a couple of these people the virtual door? Yes. But overall I'm seeing customers that went from kind of irritated to outright angry, almost entirely due to a total failure of customer service. This could have been avoided without that much damage to Sankey's reputation. And while I don't believe that it will be impossible to recover from this, I think it will take some customer service savvy and a lot of effort to un-sour the taste that is currently in people's mouths.

Personally, I'm washing my hands of it. As I said before, I don't have a dog in this race. I'm not a Sankey customer and I don't have much interest in his products as they do not fit my style. I probably shouldn't have gotten involved at all, but what can I say? If I see a bunch of heated people about to start arguing my mediator instincts kick in and I just have to speak up.

Good luck and good night.

 

[Seanhawk23]

Forgive me for my tone; over the years, I have learned to temper my emotions with utmost formality in my speech, both online and in the real world. It helps to control my anger, and in all true honesty, you are not helping at all by picking away at that facade.

In your replies, you have made it clear that you choose to ignore the facts that have been made readily available and quite frankly, your last few responses to me started to become borderline incoherent ("I once got a negative feedback on eBay so I am obviously a dirty rotten crooked lying thief too!" how does this have to do with anything?)

At this time it would behoove you to cease broaching matters that have long since passed. You have done nothing but undermine your own credibility by provoking the angry responses within this thread (I bet you probably will start insulting my intelligence really soon; I honestly look forward to it). If you choose to remain intractable in your position, then I suppose it is not worth wasting my time arguing with you anymore.

P.S. Warning signs? Of what?

One more note: I find it personally laughable that you consider this entire forum as an ad hominem argument against Sankey in light of the incontrovertible evidence that has surfaced against him, while giving no supporting proof of your own. Such hypocrisy only undermines your credibility and weakens your arguments.

 

[allen5252]

I am not basing Jay's declining image based on this forum soley. I have reason to believe so because of complaints on the magic cafe, complaints here, and dealers do not have any slyders on their sites (look it up yourself if you dont believe me). The latter is quite unusual since suppliers usually try to have multiple retailers in an attempt to maximize revenues. Asi I have previously stated, suppliers receive guaranteed money and marketing from retailers. Why no retailers now?

I obviously can't know for sure if dealers aren't too happy, as what ever happens in their boardroom stays there. But based on the fact that no retailer has the Slyder and the fact that penguinmagic had to do some damage control so they can hopefully squek out some BTR sales led me to wonder if dealers were starting to distrust Jay.

As for your claim that "also, did it occur to you that these devices aren't shooting out of a machine in China and production in relation to demand might necessitate the need to control the release of this product?"

You have retracted what you said. You even admit that you don't have the crucial information to prove that Jay needs/wants a limited supply of Slyders. We (me and you Allan) obviously dont know what his breakeven point is so it is really something for you to make your claim that Sankey needs a low supply of Slyders in relation to the demand.

As for who you are, we'll just see what a mod has to say.

You misunderstand the law of supply and demand as it relates to this product/industry. Just think how cheap slyders would be if we made em by the millions!! we could sell em for $3 and then have a warehouse full of them for years to come!

 

[allen5252]

Not entirely, no. That's a way to get rid of the customer, at this point. If he had basically opened with a sincere apology, offer to fix the situation, then followed up with an offer of refund, I'm guessing they would have been disappointed but not angry.

However, complaints were initially met with, "Well, we're glad other people like it." That is not a response, that's a dismissal. Repeated e-mails being ignored is absolutely a no-no in customer service. Coming on here and basically saying, "Welp, can't please everyone," is not a response, it's a dismissal. Having posts deleted without addressing them is another no-no. Deleting comments on YouTube, yet another no-no. Calling a customer that has sent in a polite e-mail rude and telling them that their business is not desired is bad customer service.

Basically, the tone I'm getting from this interaction is Sankey & Co. giving these complaints the middle finger, and saying, "Fine, get out. We don't want you." Ok, sure, that's a valid response I guess. I mean, as long as you don't want to keep customers.

Do I think some people over reacted? Absolutely. Would I have shown a couple of these people the virtual door? Yes. But overall I'm seeing customers that went from kind of irritated to outright angry, almost entirely due to a total failure of customer service. This could have been avoided without that much damage to Sankey's reputation. And while I don't believe that it will be impossible to recover from this, I think it will take some customer service savvy and a lot of effort to un-sour the taste that is currently in people's mouths.

Personally, I'm washing my hands of it. As I said before, I don't have a dog in this race. I'm not a Sankey customer and I don't have much interest in his products as they do not fit my style. I probably shouldn't have gotten involved at all, but what can I say? If I see a bunch of heated people about to start arguing my mediator instincts kick in and I just have to speak up.

Good luck and good night.

Well sir, you have just told us your position is based on hearsay and not your actual experience. I can tell you that I have done business with Sankey and have had many communications with their customer service department. I have nothing but positive things to say. and based on the fact that Sankey has been around as long as he has lets me know that more and more, not less and less, people agree with me every day. The fact is that since Angel and Blaine have brought magic back into the realm of "cool", Jay has had an ever widening ever-changing demographic to cater to (that is a good thing). These kids want to know magic yesterday because it is cool again- thus- bending the real- great illusions, little skill. From the loud tiny little market of purists- you get complaints...from the giant demanding market of give me skill now- profits. which would you pick if you were trying to keep your employees paid?

 

[Dan K.]

I'm just standing up for somebody who finds their reputation in this lions den when all they were trying to do was satisfy customers and liquidate his warehouse (I'm guessing because he is successful and moving on to bigger better things- just a guess though).
I just think the anger in this forum is childish and unnecessary. What ya'll should have done in this forum was set up a trading post for the BABOM holders and then everybody could share with each other their happiness and not their chronic discontent.

"BABOM disappointed the majority of the people who ordered"- I doubt this

Again, telling people what you think they should do with their products that they are unhappy with, and telling them that being angry is childish and unnecessary is telling them how they should feel, indirectly. You are telling them that the deal is more important than what they should have received, and since they didn't get what they ordered, to just re-sell it. You don't have that right, bro. That is not up to you to decide. They can be angry (and they should), and they should want to fix the situation for the near 30 other people who have complained. That is alot of people, and majority might have been a stretch, but to be honest, we will never know the absolute number of people who disliked their BABOM, but we know of how many on this thread, which is more than I would ever want, if I were someone like Jay Sankey. This is a reputation ruiner.

 

[Dan K.]

I got it now. I am still not convinced that any false advertising or fraud has occurred here. and comparing this to buying a 30,000 and getting a 28,000 sedan is a bit of a stretch- would you agree? My god people- Sell the stuff and make a profit for goodness sakes. You got the stuff for less than wholesale.

You are suggesting that people take what they received, and have fun at attempts to resell this stuff that Sankey had to pretty much box up and "liquidate".

That is pretty much telling people to shut up and color, take what you got because it is a deal, and find happiness somehow, instead of addressing the root problems, which have already been stated.

You misunderstand the law of supply and demand as it relates to this product/industry. Just think how cheap slyders would be if we made em by the millions!! we could sell em for $3 and then have a warehouse full of them for years to come!

What we know is that Slyder was made to be limited in quantities (heheh ti...never mind). Why bulk up on them and store them in a warehouse? For the next BABOM? Nobody is running around ranting and raving about Slyder to begin with, let alone no other major magic conglomerate is even reselling them, so why bother producing so many? Jay has a hard enough of a time getting rid of them on his own.

 

[allen5252]

One more note: I find it personally laughable that you consider this entire forum as an ad hominem argument against Sankey in light of the incontrovertible evidence that has surfaced against him, while giving no supporting proof of your own. Such hypocrisy only undermines your credibility and weakens your arguments.

"incontrovertible evidence"- more detail please- without the thesaurus this time...

 

[allen5252]

Again, telling people what you think they should do with their products that they are unhappy with, and telling them that being angry is childish and unnecessary is telling them how they should feel, indirectly. You are telling them that the deal is more important than what they should have received, and since they didn't get what they ordered, to just re-sell it. You don't have that right, bro. That is not up to you to decide. They can be angry (and they should), and they should want to fix the situation for the near 30 other people who have complained. That is alot of people, and majority might have been a stretch, but to be honest, we will never know the absolute number of people who disliked their BABOM, but we know of how many on this thread, which is more than I would ever want, if I were someone like Jay Sankey. This is a reputation ruiner.

So in your mind, bro, I don't have the "right" to share my opinion and make a suggestions? But you do have the right to loosely use adjectives as you please to enforce your position? might have been a stretch? you meant was a stretch. I am just fascinated by the way you guys are so certain that everyone should feel this way when the reality is that nowhere did any of the promotional material say "every BABOM will include the following 36 items". Like I said, I do recall hearing, on more than one occasion, that every BABOM would be different.

 

[Dan K.]

So in your mind, bro, I don't have the "right" to share my opinion and make a suggestions? But you do have the right to loosely use adjectives as you please to enforce your position? might have been a stretch? you meant was a stretch. I am just fascinated by the way you guys are so certain that everyone should feel this way when the reality is that nowhere did any of the promotional material say "every BABOM will include the following 36 items". Like I said, I do recall hearing, on more than one occasion, that every BABOM would be different.

I'm saying that you don't have the right to tell these people who paid their money for a product and were unsatisfied to just accept it, being angry is childish, and you should make attempts to resell it on your own time and money. That is what I am saying...bro. Saying every BABOM would be different is ok, as long as everything else that was advertised was met. None of the conditions for the selling points of the BABOM were met in some cases, and these people are voicing their concerns, opinions and feelings on their experiences with it. You don't get to tell them that they are being childish for doing so.

Bro.

 

[razemagic]

So in your mind, bro, I don't have the "right" to share my opinion and make a suggestions? But you do have the right to loosely use adjectives as you please to enforce your position? might have been a stretch? you meant was a stretch. I am just fascinated by the way you guys are so certain that everyone should feel this way when the reality is that nowhere did any of the promotional material say "every BABOM will include the following 36 items". Like I said, I do recall hearing, on more than one occasion, that every BABOM would be different.

Please look at the prouduct description again. You will find it states "HERE'S WHAT'S INSIDE THE BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC..." followed by a list of items. If that doesn't prove the point, I'm not sure what does.

 

[Seanhawk23]

Please look at the prouduct description again. You will find it states "HERE'S WHAT'S INSIDE THE BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC..." followed by a list of items. If that doesn't prove the point, I'm not sure what does.

That's what I mean when I mention incontrovertible (which means something along the lines of "indisputable, unquestionable") evidence. I suppose you should start by reviewing that.

As for your own experiences with Sankey Magic's customer service, that may have been the case in the past, but it would seem from the responses here that the quality of their customer service has greatly degenerated since then.

 

[SilentAgain]

You misunderstand the law of supply and demand as it relates to this product/industry. Just think how cheap slyders would be if we made em by the millions!! we could sell em for $3 and then have a warehouse full of them for years to come!

No I didn't misunderstand the law of supply and demand. Firstly I already and accurately provided an example of the law of supply. I also haven't even explained the law of demand.

Secondly, your understanding of determining supply in terms of profitability is frankly laughable. Even though slyders may be cheap for us the consumers, what about Jay? Having barrels of unsold slyders sitting in the warehouse is not a smart investment. Especially if you aren't even selling them to other dealers! It costs money to produce each unit. His total cost will exceed his total revenues. I highly doubt demand is through the roof to the point where it's feasible to produce millions, let alone a high amount (let's say thousands). Nice try weaseling your way out, but you still fail to prove to everyone that "production [is] in relation to demand [that] might necessitate the need to control the release of this product?" You don't have the knowledge (economic wise or information wise about Sankey's supply curve) to try to make claims about Sankey's limited quantities.

 

[Seanhawk23]

Sigh... you know, I sure hope my parents eventually do a family trip to Toronto soon (which would constitute my fourth time). I'd love to meet Lee Asher and Jay Sankey in person... I'd tell the latter that I was sorry and that I'd hope to rebuild the bridge anew (starting by this: when we meet, say at Eaton mall, hopefully he's hungry because then I'd foot the bill ). I'd tell him politely that I haven't forgotten about the BABOM and that I'd like to finish what I started (cue me flashing two Ben Franklins in my hand). I'd then come with him because I don't want to be carrying around all those DVD cases. And I want to make sure I get what I want. I suppose that this (albeit fantastical) approach would leave us both winners.

 

[razemagic]

I have saved all the email I received from Sankey Magic and thought I would share some bits of information from them:
I’ve added my personal notes [Note: ]
Subject: 'Big Ass Box of Magic' - REVEALED!!!
June 18, 2011
WATCH VIDEO #1: AWESOME MENTALISM!
Be among the first in the world to get a peek inside the 'BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC!' Here's an exclusive look at JUST the mentalism you'll find in the box!

[NOTE: This sure sounds like everything listed in the video is included in the box.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMFqQUxKDrc

WATCH VIDEO #2: KILLER CARD GIMMICKS!
Jay LOVES magic with playing cards, especially gimmicked cards. (They are just SO MUCH FUN.) Here is another exclusive peek look INSIDE THE BOX!

[NOTE: again, seems to state we are going to see everything included.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpmdNIaYxjA

 

[razemagic]

Here are Jay’s tweets about the box. Most of these lead you to believe the videos are showing what’s included in the box. Ultimately the product description states what was included so this is just some extas…

BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC: LECTURE NOTES!
“35 more effects were just added to the BIG ASS BOX of magic! Watch the new video ”
jay_sankey 06/19/2011 10 more share video

Sankey Magic Inc. - THE BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC
sankeymagic.com/detail.aspx?ID=48456
“What's inside THE BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC? Find out ”
jay_sankey 06/17/2011 31 more

YouTube - ‪BIG ASS BOX: ADVANCED SLEIGHT OF HAND‬‏
“Can't. Stop. Adding. Stuff. To. The. Box ”
jay_sankey 06/21/2011 3 more share video

YouTube - ‪BIG ASS BOX: STREET MAGIC!‬‏
“Just how much STREET MAGIC is in the big ass box? New video ”
jay_sankey 06/20/2011 2 more share video

YouTube - ‪BIG ASS BOX: DISCONTINUED ITEMS!‬‏
“If you missed the party on YouTube the other night you might not know about these last minute additions to DAS BOX ”
jay_sankey 06/22/2011 share video

'BIG ASS BOX:' MENTALISM!
“Here's a video talking about JUST the mentalism you will find inside the 'BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC.' http://youtu.be/QMFqQUxKDrc ”
jay_sankey 06/18/2011 3 more share video

'BIG ASS BOX': CARD GIMMICKS!
“If you like magic with gimmicked cards this video about the 'BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC' is for you ”
jay_sankey 06/18/2011 3 more share video

jay_sankey: Great news. We found some extra stock of a few of the especially scarce items. So we're going to have approx 120 of the BIG ASS BOXES! 06/20/2011 2 retweet

jay_sankey: Thx for all the DMs about the 'Big Ass Box of Magic' promo. Gonna be a chance to get yer mitts on some RARE stuff. More info soon. 06/08/2011 retweet

 

[allen5252]

No I didn't misunderstand the law of supply and demand. Firstly I already and accurately provided an example of the law of supply. I also haven't even explained the law of demand.

Secondly, your understanding of determining supply in terms of profitability is frankly laughable. Even though slyders may be cheap for us the consumers, what about Jay? Having barrels of unsold slyders sitting in the warehouse is not a smart investment. Especially if you aren't even selling them to other dealers! It costs money to produce each unit. His total cost will exceed his total revenues. I highly doubt demand is through the roof to the point where it's feasible to produce millions, let alone a high amount (let's say thousands). Nice try weaseling your way out, but you still fail to prove to everyone that "production [is] in relation to demand [that] might necessitate the need to control the release of this product?" You don't have the knowledge (economic wise or information wise about Sankey's supply curve) to try to make claims about Sankey's limited quantities.

I've never heard the law of supply and demand separated into the law of supply and the law of demand. Interesting. Secondly, your missing my sarcasm is frankly laughable. But thanks for explaining my sarcastic reply in literal terms for everybody. So on one hand, you are agreeing with me that there is a limited demand for Slyder, but on the other hand you are making a judgment as to why the product isn't available at other dealers. So your position is that there is a limited demand, and Jay's best move would be to spread that demand out to his wholesale customers as opposed to maximizing his profit margins by selling it exclusively from his own website. Also, speculation and making claims are two separate things.

 

[allen5252]

Here are Jay’s tweets about the box. Most of these lead you to believe the videos are showing what’s included in the box. Ultimately the product description states what was included so this is just some extas…

BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC: LECTURE NOTES!
“35 more effects were just added to the BIG ASS BOX of magic! Watch the new video ”
jay_sankey 06/19/2011 10 more share video

Sankey Magic Inc. - THE BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC
sankeymagic.com/detail.aspx?ID=48456
“What's inside THE BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC? Find out ”
jay_sankey 06/17/2011 31 more

YouTube - ‪BIG ASS BOX: ADVANCED SLEIGHT OF HAND‬‏
“Can't. Stop. Adding. Stuff. To. The. Box ”
jay_sankey 06/21/2011 3 more share video

YouTube - ‪BIG ASS BOX: STREET MAGIC!‬‏
“Just how much STREET MAGIC is in the big ass box? New video ”
jay_sankey 06/20/2011 2 more share video

YouTube - ‪BIG ASS BOX: DISCONTINUED ITEMS!‬‏
“If you missed the party on YouTube the other night you might not know about these last minute additions to DAS BOX ”
jay_sankey 06/22/2011 share video

'BIG ASS BOX:' MENTALISM!
“Here's a video talking about JUST the mentalism you will find inside the 'BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC.' http://youtu.be/QMFqQUxKDrc ”
jay_sankey 06/18/2011 3 more share video

'BIG ASS BOX': CARD GIMMICKS!
“If you like magic with gimmicked cards this video about the 'BIG ASS BOX OF MAGIC' is for you ”
jay_sankey 06/18/2011 3 more share video

jay_sankey: Great news. We found some extra stock of a few of the especially scarce items. So we're going to have approx 120 of the BIG ASS BOXES! 06/20/2011 2 retweet

jay_sankey: Thx for all the DMs about the 'Big Ass Box of Magic' promo. Gonna be a chance to get yer mitts on some RARE stuff. More info soon. 06/08/2011 retweet

"So we're going to have approx 120 of the BIG ASS BOXES!"

So it seems like the underlying issue in this matter is that Jay didn't live up to his promise of 120 big ass boxes. Instead, he put together over 200 so he could satisfy more customers. So those of you who have a problem and are bashing Jay's customer service have put yourself in an interesting position because, I'm guessing, that in his efforts to satisfy more customers, he angered a handful. Ironic isn't it? The position you have unknowingly assumed is- "Jay's customer service is terrible- he went out of his way to satisfy 225 loyal customers instead of 125."
One other point- The angry and in some cases delusional posts in this forum insinuate that Jay has willingly committed a fraud against you with some sort of evil intention. The fact that this whole promotion was done in good faith with an effort to satisfy as many customers as possible kind of weakens this position that Jay has willingly wronged you guys. While I didn't memorize the marketing campaign, I still believe that the notion that the boxes would contain a variety of products from the list as opposed to all of the products on the list was implied in the videos and in the price.

 

[Dan K.]

"So we're going to have approx 120 of the BIG ASS BOXES!"

So it seems like the underlying issue in this matter is that Jay didn't live up to his promise of 120 big ass boxes. Instead, he put together over 200 so he could satisfy more customers. So those of you who have a problem and are bashing Jay's customer service have put yourself in an interesting position because, I'm guessing, that in his efforts to satisfy more customers, he angered a handful. Ironic isn't it? The position you have unknowingly assumed is- "Jay's customer service is terrible- he went out of his way to satisfy 225 loyal customers instead of 125."
One other point- The angry and in some cases delusional posts in this forum insinuate that Jay has willingly committed a fraud against you with some sort of evil intention. The fact that this whole promotion was done in good faith with an effort to satisfy as many customers as possible kind of weakens this position that Jay has willingly wronged you guys. While I didn't memorize the marketing campaign, I still believe that the notion that the boxes would contain a variety of products from the list as opposed to all of the products on the list was implied in the videos and in the price.

You haven't been paying as much attention to this thread as you should have. Even people who ordered the first 120 BABOMs didn't get what was listed, and some of them were missing upwards of 10+ items from the list. That is not what anyone who ordered the box would have expected. 1 or 2, fine, whatever, but 13 items that isn't anything like what was listed...give me a break. You're telling me that 26+ people just so happen to collectively be upset that their boxes came with poor replacements, or duplicate products in the box and they are the ones who are wrong?

I think you are the only one who is posting in this thread that has the whole thing wrong here. You are happy with your product, and I hope you stay that way. They are not, and you should understand why.

 

[allen5252]

You haven't been paying as much attention to this thread as you should have. Even people who ordered the first 120 BABOMs didn't get what was listed, and some of them were missing upwards of 10+ items from the list. That is not what anyone who ordered the box would have expected. 1 or 2, fine, whatever, but 13 items that isn't anything like what was listed...give me a break. You're telling me that 26+ people just so happen to collectively be upset that their boxes came with poor replacements, or duplicate products in the box and they are the ones who are wrong?

I think you are the only one who is posting in this thread that has the whole thing wrong here. You are happy with your product, and I hope you stay that way. They are not, and you should understand why.

I believe that those who have set the tone of attack and revenge against Jay are the ones who have "the whole thing wrong here". I paid attention the the entire BABOM promotion and I have followed this whiner fest very closely as well. My BABOM was missing some things from the list too, but for some reason, I wasn't expecting everything on the list- I wonder why that was? Besides never having been promised everything on the list, perhaps its because I live in reality and don't make it my life's mission to figure out ways that people are screwing me, especially when they are trying to give me a deal. As I have seen, the whiniest demanding customers got their money back and if I am reading their comments properly, they are sad because now they can't keep whining and attacking. Doesn't speak much for your side of the discussion. All I am doing is defending Sankey Magic and I am now seen as a bad guy or instigator to everyone here- but I get the feeling they see that with a lot of people they encounter in their lives.

 

[S.G]

Long quote

Just because you were satisfied, doesn't mean everyone has to be. If you are fine, why even bother? If you think Sankey is absolutely innocent, then the BBB will think so too and he has nothing to worry about.