Is Cardistry just "Showing Off"?

[Luis Vega]

Guys!!!

please stop the non-sense bashing...

I like this thread because I have learned a lot about cardistry/XCM and I enjoy reading it...

it would be a shame that this gets closed just because this kind of posts...

and yes...I am talking to you MagicLemon Bird and RDChooper...take your discussion to PM`s...

 

[MagicLemonBird]

(TO RDC) (The maximum quote number in a post is 5 and if I quoted RDC it would've been six.)

Yeah, and I don't spend my time bashing you. I would ask you the "rephrase" the word nemesis because that is really such an exaggeration.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I don't use my whole weekends to "end you" either. The point is that if you are picking me out and bashing me because of my "immature ways young padawan" then why can't I pick you out to have a flourish competition? That seriously doesn't sound like me "wasting my weekends to bash you". That sounds like a genuine challenge, so quit trying to make me appear as a 3 year old because its really sickening and its getting too repetitive.

You would talk with my signature because its really useful????

Yeah I hope that little boy isn't me, cause I wouldn't try to make the person whom I'm arguing appear smaller with petty comments. So again who's spending there time trying to "bash" the other???

BY THE WAY: That was not "serveral videos". That was only one video where I was talking. So there was no NEED to mention that I posted several videos talking. Thats bull****, plus I had a little flourishing at the end. And are you going to criticize me for everything? I made the video of my bird just for fun, so what exactly is wrong with that? And its a good thing that I made that video cause its another video to remind me of my bird, who died two months ago.

Sorry Luis, I'll PM from now on (although I'm pretty sure RDC won't PM me as a reply to this post).

Anyway, I'm not gonna spend my time posting anymore in this thread. So I just want to point that a little itsy bitsy challenge with RDC for cardistry wouldn't hurt. So why not? It'll be fun and there's no harm whatsoever.

 

[praetoritevong]

(TO RDC) (The maximum quote number in a post is 5 and if I quoted RDC it would've been six.)

Yeah, and I don't spend my time bashing you. I would ask you the "rephrase" the word nemesis because that is really such an exaggeration.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I don't use my whole weekends to "end you" either. The point is that if you are picking me out and bashing me because of my "immature ways young padawan" then why can't I pick you out to have a flourish competition? That seriously doesn't sound like me "wasting my weekends to bash you". That sounds like a genuine challenge, so quit trying to make me appear as a 3 year old because its really sickening and its getting too repetitive.

You would talk with my signature because its really useful????

Yeah I hope that little boy isn't me, cause I wouldn't try to make the person whom I'm arguing appear smaller with petty comments. So again who's spending there time trying to "bash" the other???

Sorry Luis, I'll PM from now on (although I'm pretty sure RDC won't PM me as a reply to this post).

Anyway, I'm not gonna spend my time posting anymore in this thread. So I just want to point that a little itsy bitsy challenge with RDC for cardistry wouldn't hurt. So why not? It'll be fun and there's no harm whatsoever.

Sweet. So you have managed to ardently defend everything except your actual opinion on the matter.

 

[MagicLemonBird]

Sweet. So you have managed to ardently defend everything except your actual opinion on the matter.

Yeah but RDC did also , infact he took the time and quoted each of my posts individually. We haven't been talking about the matter since his last post. Want my opinion? Cardistry is an art. BaBAAM! There it is .

 

[KeoSilver]

Yeah but RDC did also , infact he took the time and quoted each of my posts individually. We haven't been talking about the matter since his last post. Want my opinion? Cardistry is an art. BaBAAM! There it is .

... You two should get married.

Cardistry isn't an art! Bam my opinion and now we are back to square one.

<3 RDC and Lemon just because he fills me with joy!

 

[RDChopper]

... You two should get married.

Cardistry isn't an art! Bam my opinion and now we are back to square one.

<3 RDC and Lemon just because he fills me with joy!

Only if you are the priest <3333333333333333

I have texted my thoughts on magic and flourishing as an art like countless times just to find ut that everybody is happy with their own opinion.

For me, it´s simple, since actuallly nobody here has a definite definition of what is art, I think that we should stick to practicing magic and what not, since the last 100 debates on the matter have proven to be in vain.

@MLB

I'm pretty sure that by now you are better than me in cardistry, just like I mentioned before. No need for a contest.

 

[demon5magic]

Guys, as hilarious as it is watching you guys argue, I feel as though this thread needs a kitty.

You're welcome.


NOW CHILL THE HELL OUT.

 

[KeoSilver]

Only if you are the priest <3333333333333333

I have texted my thoughts on magic and flourishing as an art like countless times just to find out that everybody is happy with their own opinion.

Well I can actually take an online course and get a license to legally marry someone, so the option isn't completely out of the picture! Go, Texas!

Also, on your last point in what I quoted, I completely agree with. Talking in general now, Unfortunately, some people take it a bit to far and then feel they have to prove something. I am guilty of doing such things but I know how and when to stop now, it's a learned skill.

 

[KeoSilver]

Guys, as hilarious as it is watching you guys argue, I feel as though this thread needs a kitty.

You're welcome.


NOW CHILL THE HELL OUT.

Demon is going to conjure up shadow demons that slide out from the darkness under your mattress and demand that they tear your soul apart. Demon is a dangerous man, he'll do it too. I've seen it with my own eye!

*ahem, puts the crazy back into the dark box of things that should never be revealed to the mortal world*

On a more serious note, I just realized something from the original post:

Jeff: i find it, ESPECIALLY WITH CARDS, showing off, not impressive, and dumb
hehe
just my opinion

Zach:isnt perfecting and uploading video of a sleight showing off
or a routine that you have worked hard on and uploading to youtube
isnt that showing off the routine

Jeff: i dont make videos of sleight of hand... but we're talking about magicians now, i was talking about flourishing to layman before

Zach: hahah no one flourishes to laymen
people flourish to show other flourishers

Jeff: that makes like no sense

Zach: yeah it does
people who stamp collect, do they show people their collections? No. Will laymen appreciate all the stamps? Probably not.​

Zach compared flourishing to stamp collecting. Even though I am not a flourisher, I feel that this is kind of down grade onto what flourishing is. I really do feel that cardistry videos are indeed showing off, same goes with the sleight videos that strictly show off a single piece of sleight of hand. It's all showing off to me and it is nothing close to art in the sleightest (yes pun). That is my stance on flourishing and sleight of hand heavy tricks in front of a spectator.

 

[praetoritevong]

Yeah but RDC did also , infact he took the time and quoted each of my posts individually. We haven't been talking about the matter since his last post. Want my opinion? Cardistry is an art. BaBAAM! There it is .

Sorry, not good enough. That opinion is worthless.

Next.

 

[JetEyeNight]

Can we let this thread die already? I think it has more than run it's course. We've already examined many different opinions, and they have ranged all across the spectrum. I don't think we're going to get a consensus on this topic. Let's bring some different topics to the table.

We should be brainstorming different ideas for flourishes.

 

[praetoritevong]

I think there have been some recent new ideas that have popped in and have as of yet been unanswered. I'm trying to provoke discussion from one of the major players, but no luck/.

 

[MagicLemonBird]

Sorry, not good enough. That opinion is worthless.

Next.

Not good enough? Its the naked truth.......so what do you want me to say? Nope its not, your attitude is worthless.

 

[The Tumbleweed]

Wow, what a thread.
I've seen better discussions on Criss Angel based topics.

Anyway, even if flourishing is showing off, is there a problem with that?
People love watching flourishing, and I'm talking laymen. If you disagree, your flourishing isn't impressive. Don't blame flourishing itself.
There's nothing wrong with showing off, as long as it isn't done in an arrogant "come and look at how good I am at everything" kind of way.

Stop arguing and start flourishing.

 

[KeoSilver]

There's nothing wrong with showing off, as long as it isn't done in an arrogant "come and look at how good I am at everything" kind of way.

Welcome back Tumble, also this is, I think, the question that is being raised currently. How can flourishers convey any kind of message other then look at me with these awesome fingers? How can flourishing connect on an emotional level like magic and other arts can?

It can't, and until I see proof that it can, that is going to be my opinion on the matter. Cardistry is just flash, it may seem like I am putting down cardsits, let it be known I am not. I have done cardistry before for a year then stopped and focused on other things that were more important to me.

 

[praetoritevong]

Not good enough? Its the naked truth.......so what do you want me to say? Nope its not, your attitude is worthless.

I want you to back up your argument, stop pussyfooting around, and actually support everything you say with a logical sequence of facts.

Many people believe that the world is flat. Why is this opinion disregarded? Because they are unable to back it up with fact.

So far you've come into this thread, attacked everyone, stated your point of view... And have been completely unable to back it up with anything other than ad hom attacks against everyone who disagrees with you.

You would know this if you had read any of my previous posts with even a modicum of intelligence. Apparently that escapes you.

Add some thoughts into the thread, if you are capable. Show me I'm wrong - give me an actual argument - or your opinion IS worthless. ANY opinion is worthless in a debate if it is not substantiated with evidence. I have no problem maintaining my attitude of ignoring anyone who is unable to justify their opinion. Basically because I have better things to do than waste time like that. So my attitude is not useless - it is what I would call utility maximisation. What a joke.

To everyone else, I apologise for the rant, and I am disappointed that some people seem unwilling or unable to actually engage in discussion, choosing instead to blindly peddle an "opinion", although to be frank, I think that even if they were taken to space, they would still believe, metaphorically speaking, that the world was flat. The difference between that man and an intelligent man is that the latter attempts to use evidence to back up their argument.

Welcome back Tumble, also this is, I think, the question that is being raised currently. How can flourishers convey any kind of message other then look at me with these awesome fingers? How can flourishing connect on an emotional level like magic and other arts can?

It can't, and until I see proof that it can, that is going to be my opinion on the matter. Cardistry is just flash, it may seem like I am putting down cardsits, let it be known I am not. I have done cardistry before for a year then stopped and focused on other things that were more important to me.

Thank you keo, I think that's exactly right. It is for this reason exactly that I more or less gave up cardistry and now perform mentalism full time. It is for the same reason that I perform mentalism as opposed to card magic now, although I enjoy both, and card magic was my first love. But the connection just isn't there.

 

[JetEyeNight]

What I'd like to know is why do you want to connect with the audience on an "emotional level"? What's wrong with just "juggling" with cards and simply astounding people and entertaining people with your skill? Contrary to many peoples beliefs that "nobody likes a showoff", people do like watching people show off who can actually perform, but not in a cocky, arrogant manner of course.

I love juggling with all different types of items, like clubs, devil sticks, diablo, contact juggling, ect. That is why cardistry appeals to me so much. I'm first a juggler, then a magician. I'm not all that concerned with connecting with the audience on an "emotional level". You may say that connecting with the audience on an emotional level is the only way to leave a lasting impression. That's simply not true. I visit the local renaissance festival every year to see the jugglers. There's one juggler in particular. His name is Tuey. Year after year, the same people come to see him. I'm talking laymen, although I'm sure there are some jugglers in the crowd. One guy told me, "I've been coming to see this guy for the last 23 years." People come to see him simply because he's an amazing juggler. He juggles in the elements flawlessly. Nobody leaves the show crying, nobody leaves the show in disbelief. They simply are like "WOW, look what he can do! That's amazing!" This personal experience is testimony and my evidence on what I base my opinion on.

Bottom line is people like to see amazing things. No matter whatever vehicle you are using, if it's amazing people will watch and be entertained and chances are you'll be remembered, whether or not it connects with people emotionally.

 

[Justice]

I used to think that rdchopper kinda liked to fight just for giggles, but I just noticed that MLB actually called him out and keoke too.

That was kinda low.

As for my point of view on Art, as I said before, I actually don't have a concrete answer to what is and what is not art.

Meanwhile, I kinda liked Praetoritevong and JetEyeNight thoughts on the subject, they are bringing new points to the table that I didn't noticed before.

 

[TheatreHead]

JetEyeNight's point is interesting. It's true that pure aesthetics is defined as art.

But still, it all comes circles back to a definitional debate.
For example, if one's definition is "a superior skill that you can learn by study and practice and observation", then it can hardly be said that some forms of abstract art is art. Half of Duchamp's pieces would be dismissed as art.

That's just one example, I can't be bothered to quote others.

 

[KeoSilver]

What I'd like to know is why do you want to connect with the audience on an "emotional level"? What's wrong with just "juggling" with cards and simply astounding people and entertaining people with your skill? Contrary to many peoples beliefs that "nobody likes a showoff", people do like watching people show off who can actually perform, but not in a cocky, arrogant manner of course.

I agree with you here. I can thoroughly entertain people with a diabolo and five balls but I slowly found that I wanted something more then: Wow that is an awesome skill.

I love juggling with all different types of items, like clubs, devil sticks, diablo, contact juggling, ect. That is why cardistry appeals to me so much. I'm first a juggler, then a magician. I'm not all that concerned with connecting with the audience on an "emotional level". You may say that connecting with the audience on an emotional level is the only way to leave a lasting impression. That's simply not true. I visit the local renaissance festival every year to see the jugglers. There's one juggler in particular. His name is Tuey. Year after year, the same people come to see him. I'm talking laymen, although I'm sure there are some jugglers in the crowd. One guy told me, "I've been coming to see this guy for the last 23 years." People come to see him simply because he's an amazing juggler. He juggles in the elements flawlessly. Nobody leaves the show crying, nobody leaves the show in disbelief. They simply are like "WOW, look what he can do! That's amazing!" This personal experience is testimony and my evidence on what I base my opinion on.

I know of this juggler and he is one of the exceptions to my opinion. But, so far I have not seen this same type of performance in cardistry, which is one of the main reasons why I am not so quick to say cardistry is an art other then a skill.

Bottom line is people like to see amazing things. No matter whatever vehicle you are using, if it's amazing people will watch and be entertained and chances are you'll be remembered, whether or not it connects with people emotionally.

True some people may be remembered but I kind of feel like cardistry is like the random funny youtube videos. You watch them you laugh then you forget it the next day after. It isn't memorable. This is another reason why I had an earlier falling out in magic and went to live acting. I've been in such plays as "The Diary of Ann Frank" "Fiddler on the Roof" "Sound of Music" What kept me on stage was a the excitement of the attention, the people, singing, dancing and looking at the various states of emotion people were in when they left the theater. But now I am sliding off topic so I will leave it at that.






Ps
Are you the same Jeteye from SOC?