Mature eyes only please...

[magicmagicmagic]

Hi Theophilus Bernhard Weston-Smythe II. I love your name. Much better than mine. My name sounds like I got the answer wrong on "The Price is Right". Listen: "frAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnk"

Honestly, I may have missed that point in magicmagicmagic's posts, but he came out with guns blazing. His first post wasn't about "how parents might object to having their children see this", his first post was



which opened up the sticks and stones being thrown. He has backpeddled from there, in my humble opinion, when everyone, including Katie and Chris themselves confronted him.

So if he simply meant, "hey guys, I don't want to seem confrentational, but is this really the right place for this? I mean, parents might not want their children to see this." Then he would've said it in a nicer, less confrentational way.

Instead, he came out and set himself up as the "only mature person" and the one who sees the "moral indecency so tightly affiliated with t11." Stood proudly alone but then pulled away and changed his position as soon as the real big guns came out.

Sorry, again, all this is simply my opinion, but that is why his point was lost.

Do not for a second think that I don't stand behind my original post... If I hadn't I would change it. I meant and mean every word of it. As for the "flaming" it was always expected.

Now step back and look at this ENTIRE thread... why is it here? Why are these pictures here? what could possibly be the point of this thread being on a magic forum? There is a reason and I happen to disagree with it. Obviously not everyone (who am I kidding) most don't agree with me. My moral standards are probably higher than the average person. I recognize that and I stand as saying that I do not and will not agree with this. The only two people at this point that have a reason to be upset are Katie and Kenner and we have (in my opinion) maturely agreed to disagree. So now I offer the same to you, and everyone else. I gave my opinion and I stand by it. You can either agree or disagree with my point of view, but I'm not going to change it.

 

[jimbowmanjr]

Jonathan,

As to your point about what is the point of this thread? Well I could go the route that there are plenty of posts in not only these forums but others as well that have no point whatsoever aside from discussion. I could also go the route that the photos taken are art and they involve a person who is associated with this site. I do disagree with your stance on these photos but instead of trying sway your opinion I will ask you a question in return.

Have you ever been to an art gallery? Elementary schools frequently take field trips through those galleries in most cities. There are dozens of photographs, paintings, and sculptures that reveal much more than is shown in these photographs. Do you disagree with that artwork being presented in a public art gallery?

I suppose it depends on how you are viewing the photographs. Are you viewing them as works of art by Homer Liwag that happen to include photographs of Katie? Or are you simply viewing them as a half-naked woman on display? I think it makes a difference how you interpret the art before you when you are making the distinction of who has the greater morals here.

--Jim

 

[phrozunsun]

Katie... there are kids that really thought your xcm was impressive because they rarely if ever see a woman doing fantastic card manipulations... however that impression is now gone and lost to a group of eager youth that now see you as a piece of meat.

1. Her XCM should be impressive because it's impressive, not because she's a woman.
2. The fact she's cute, and looks amazing in those pictures doesn't make her a piece of meat.

She's a cute girl and can do XCM. Nothing wrong with that. Neither really effect the other, but i must admit, that's two cool things about her.

*any chauvanistic comments I make anytime/anywhere are in jest, I'm sure she's mature enough to get that.

 

[AceOfSpades2662]

Wow!
Guardians : $6
Jerry's : $100
Wynns : unopened 120 x2
Katie Egleston : Priceless

For all the cards you want theres mastercard ...
for Katie Egleston, all the money in the world.

Michael,



Darn You Mr. Kenner,

Just Kidding

 

[magicmagicmagic]

Jonathan,

As to your point about what is the point of this thread? Well I could go the route that there are plenty of posts in not only these forums but others as well that have no point whatsoever aside from discussion. I could also go the route that the photos taken are art and they involve a person who is associated with this site. I do disagree with your stance on these photos but instead of trying sway your opinion I will ask you a question in return.

Have you ever been to an art gallery? Elementary schools frequently take field trips through those galleries in most cities. There are dozens of photographs, paintings, and sculptures that reveal much more than is shown in these photographs. Do you disagree with that artwork being presented in a public art gallery?

I suppose it depends on how you are viewing the photographs. Are you viewing them as works of art by Homer Liwag that happen to include photographs of Katie? Or are you simply viewing them as a half-naked woman on display? I think it makes a difference how you interpret the art before you when you are making the distinction of who has the greater morals here.

--Jim

I was never talking about how I interpret the photos (as an adult I can see them as having artistic value). However, the question I posed is, how will the younger members view them... lets be honest, its not going to be as art regardless of what they say.

As for the museum thing:

I will be the first to say I don't always agree with the actions of the public school system lol. However, these photos would not be in a museum that grade school kids would be attending. Maybe a maxim magazine... or heck, people magazine but not a public museum. We all know that I think. Perhaps some actually can compare Katie's pictures to the Birth of Venus by Botticelli... but I am not one of them.

I realized from the start this was where I would be at the end and I do not negate any comment made. However, I made my post and I'll leave it as that, as my personal moral based opinion (which I should be aloud to have). So, I will leave you with that opinion as it stands. Thank you for considering my viewpoint even if you do not agree. I will be leaving the forum now and not returning, I obviously do not fit into the social or moral fibers that is T11. I truly do hope the very best for Katie... and the T11 crew for that matter. I am not impervious to the simple statement that "business is business" and things like this really do help.

 

[StreetMage]

Jonathan "magicmagicmagic" no last name

Signing your full name means more then you think. I have been personally attacked and judged on the internet for years by people with names like "Darthmagic", "coinstar", "therealsuperman" that are only repeating things and judging me before understanding the real facts or listening to the other side. When I meet these people in person and figure out who they are they NEVER say the mean spirited things that they say as their log-in name. It is much harder to judge knowing that you may be judged yourself.


Chris Kenner

PS. Still waiting for that last name.....

I hate that I'm about to do this, but I'm afraid I must.

Mr. Kenner, with all due respect, if he doesn't want his name on the internet, that's his business. There are a lot of crazy, sick people crawling all over the cybersphere, and for a long, long time I wasn't even willing to put my first name or even my nickname on the internet.

If this were any place else, I really think he'd give you his name, but this isn't any place else; it's the internet, a sespool that's absolutely gurgling with hackers, pornographers, and sexual predators. If he feels that keeping his name under wraps protects him from at least some of that, then that is his right. The buck should stop right then and there.

I'm not saying T11 necessarily has any of that... I'm just saying you never know whether the next rock you turn over will have a snake under it (please, Lord, let these people grasp metaphors better than they grasp sarcasm). Harmful people can be anywhere, especially on a place as big as the web.

And why is this battle still raging, anywho? This thread should have been a string of posts talking about how hot Katie is, maybe with a joke or six thrown in here and there. Instead, it's a battle of the morals... a battle we keep perpetuating by attacking magicmagicmagic. If he wants to think the pictures are immoral, let him. Him thinking and saying that isn't going to affect the rest of us, it's not going to make T11 take them down, and us attacking him certainly isn't going to change his mind.

 

[JustinClark]

Grrrrrrr

FYI… Katie is my girlfriend. I have and will continue to support her in every way possible in her personal life, her business, in magic, dance, or for that matter any other performing art. She is one of the sweetest people on the earth and is a great inspiration to anyone that she meets.

Katie is a very beautiful girl that is interested in magic. I hope that you do not expect that she dress in a tuxedo and try to be like one of the guys. Let her be what she is.

The pictures linked to this thread are done in very good taste and are not even close what is seen in PG movies or to the reveling outfits worn by magic assistants in shows that are geared towards children. Next thing you know there will be a thread talking about movies like E.T., Shrek, Harry Potter, Casper, etc. These films, all of which were rated PG, straddle – brilliantly – the adult-kid chasm. You can be the most jaded adult or the most innocent first-grader and enjoy each of these movies. Yet each of these movies contains sexy visuals and dialogue that is far more adult than our site will probably ever have. Dialogue like “penis breath” and “douche bag” from E.T., “piss off” and “this sucks” from Casper, “blow me” and “fat ass” from Harry Potter, and a smattering of “damns”, “asses” and “hells” from the whole lot. I mean have you seen Charlie’s Angels the movie or Baywatch on TV. Give me a break.

This is one of the most forward thinking positive magic sites EVER and I hope it will continue to stay that way. Excuse Theory11 for trying break the top-hat and tails stereotype.

To be honest with you I hate it when I read ANY negative posts from anonymous people. If you are going to post something that may hurt a someones feelings or possibly damage their reputation the least you could do is sign your real name at the end of the post.

magicmagicmagic that means you!!!!!!


Chris Kenner

Thank you Chris for that post. Seriously, this thread does NOT need anymore posts other that ones that start like, "Wow, good photography Homer!", or "Katie is very pretty even when not doing 3 fly!". I did not post these pics for a bunch a magicians to argue about there appropriateness, I posted them so we could appreciate what some magicians do outside of magic. If youre not mature enough to enjoy the art here, then just forget about it. Really I am asking you all as a friend in magic, NO MORE ARGUING. Just enjoy the photos. Thank you, peace to you all.
-Justin Clark

 

[The Dark Angel]

Let me voice my many opinions on this thread:
The pictured of Katie were not inappropriate, in my eyes. In fact the closest thing to "provacitive" in my opinion would be the last one, and even then, it isn't that bad.
Obviously Katie, and Chris Kenner do not have a problem with the pictured being posted or else they would have requested them to be taken down. Katie posed for the pictures, and must have been fine with posing in the swimsuits, and other apparel, or else she wouldn't have done it.
I find the pictured to be in fine taste, and I think that children have seen far worse in TV, film, and theatre. Anyone seen the commercials for the new Cirque De Soleil? Far more inappropriate than these pictures.
Now, the thread did say "Mature Eyes only", but perhaps the psoter should have said "The following pictures contain images that migh be inappropriate for young audiences."
Now, I do think that people shouldn't be so harsh on Jonathan for having a sense of higher morals. He has his opinion, and he is entitled to it, just as everyone else here has their opinions, and they are entitled to them. I think people should just calm down, and back off.

 

[y2john]

Hey nice pics

Jonathan, I can see where your coming from and it's good that you will keep to your original view... there is nothing wrong with your point of view

I don't agree fully with you for various reasons, but at the same time do appreciate the reasons for your concern.

I myslef thought the pics were good... both from an artistic stand point and from the fact that Katie looks good in them.
I don't think they are overtly sexual, but it's fine for a women to express there adventurous and and seductive side.

Now obviously the title of the topic will mean that every youth will jump on this thread, and your right in that there parents might be the type to frown upon things like this... but... they are gonna see scantily clad women with or without this topic, infact im sure most already have

Anyway... it's good you hold your ground, this shows that you will not sway and follow the poplar choice...
At the same time it's good that those who see nothing wrong, and those who enjoyed the pics, continue to do so.

As for is this the right forum... well it's not like we have a forum specifically for pics of women in magic... and this is the general forum... Katie is a member... Katie loves magic... and so it's on topic (considering it is still about magic and involves someone in magic).

I liked the pics...

Anyway... im off to take a cold shower

Damn too late

Jk

 

[UnholyGodn]

This is the internet, advertisments are more risque than these pictures. Google Image search with high 'child safe' settings would probably yield worse images. I think we need more girl magicians simply so people stop drooling everytime one appears.

 

[Rabid]

Ignorance, it seems...really is bliss.


Rabid

 

[rjohnson]

As I said, children can go to the pool or the beach and see women lying around in less clothing, and parents don't think twice about it.

You must not be a parent.

This argument is reminiscent of so many things that are wrong today...it is the ability to rationalize one thing based on another, i.e, you see people dressed that way on the beach, so it makes it OK here. "Everyone copies music for their buddies, so why not copy Distortion or Witness? Besides T11 rakes in the dough, they will not miss the money for a copy or two". "Gee...mom! Everyone who is cool smokes, why can't I?".

Katie does pretty good card manipulation, a way too revealing 3 fly, she is cute, and she is Chris' girlfriend. It is pretty sad that she is being promoted as a sexual object with threads being created to stroke our imaginations. I don't want to hear what is amounting to..."This is art, we are not looking at these pictures with any thoughts in our minds other than the wonderful composition of elements and the elegant thigh spread behind the golden gun". Yeah, right guys! If it convinces yourselves...

BTW...they are very nice pictures, they just do not belong all over this site as they have become part of the definition of what T11 is. Maybe that is OK with the group who runs the site.

RJ

 

[JustinClark]

Ok so since a few of you have blatantly ignored my request i will post (copy and paste) it once more.


Thank you Chris for that post. Seriously, this thread does NOT need anymore posts other that ones that start like, "Wow, good photography Homer!", or "Katie is very pretty even when not doing 3 fly!". I did not post these pics for a bunch a magicians to argue about there appropriateness, I posted them so we could appreciate what some magicians do outside of magic. If youre not mature enough to enjoy the art here, then just forget about it. Really I am asking you all as a friend in magic, NO MORE ARGUING. Just enjoy the photos. Thank you, peace to you all.
-Justin Clark

 

[The Royal JRA]

cmon guys, those pics look like somthin from a maxim or stuff magazine, how can you not see this guys point? Quit being blindined by the hotness of those pics, the only reason you guys are disagreeing is beacuse you would rather look at those pics than say "take them down thier offesive" thinking with your magic wands and not your brains. He is basically saying from a buisness geared towared all ages that isnt somthing that younger kids should see however they can turn on mtv and see movies with worse stuff and whatnot but it is up to the parents to gonvern this. If T11 is ok with posting somewhat provacative pics thats thier proagative and as far as kenner goes your just mad cus someone said somthing bad about your girlfriend your commets were compleatly illogical with the exeption of a few lines but other than that you sounded like a highschool kid. threated by comments some randon guy made, why do you care? However, katie you do look bangin in those pics though, especially in the white bra and panties. And screw the kids, i know EXACTLY what IM thinking

 

[JustinClark]

Are you all finished now? Is the residual urge to argue about everything in a magic forum out of your systems? Good, now could a mod please close this thread at my request? Its absurd to me how much grown men argue on magic forums, I just dont get it. But, being the great guy I am I will forgive you all. Youre all great! Now lets move on to something more important, like if Factory sealed can be performed with a borrowed bottle, signed coin bigger than the neck, naked on a beach, with one hand, while balancing on a beach ball singing amazing grace. (That last bit was typed with a bit of sarcasm )
-Justin

 

[Jack The Magician]

Good, now could a mod please close this thread at my request?

Since you started the thread, I'll honor your request. The thread is now closed.

JTM

 

[UnholyGodn]

When did COPPA stop mattering and allowing people under 13 to register to forums? I was surprised to see there was no age verification on registration, I thought this was a legal standard to provent children's privacy. Despite the loophole that technically the forum never explictly asks for personal information, the user profiles allow members to share such things. Ignoring the legal reasons for young persons not to be here, why are children being given unsurprised access to the internet anyway? Surely it is upto the parents not the website owner to monitor what thier children see. The thread is clearly marked for Mature Eyes, if a child enters they did so at thier own discression. The images are nothing worse than would be seen in a PG13 movie, so if parents are so worried about their children seeing such images perhaps they should rethink why they allow thier children unsupervised access to the internet .

PS: Amazing Grace is awesome, haven't quite got the balancing on the ball thing down though, I keep flashing. I'll get there.

 

[UnholyGodn]

Doesn't look closed

 

[Jack The Magician]

Now, it's closed -- slow internet connection -- by request of JustinClark, who started the thread.

JTM