REF4M by Blake Vogt?

[fridoliina]

So now REF4M is released. What did you guys think about it?

No offence to the theory11 team, im a huge fan of 99% of what you do. But isn´t this quit a suspicious handling of the TnR card? From what i can understand from the trailer the card can not be handed out. Isn´t this quit an important part in this plot? If you do something this incredible im sure someone would like to check it out.

 

[JNGmagic]

it doesn't bother me you rip the card out the end. i think it's silly that people are disappointed. many torn and restored card plots do not end clean anyways so i don't get the big fuss about it. if you use the right patter then it's great i think. over all i think it looks amazing and very fair looking, and there is no way that the spectators can figure this TNR

 

[yoourMOM]

It's an awesome idea. It really is.

But to be honest, I figure it out by first time watching.

 

[fridoliina]

Sure, i dont think they will be able to figure out the mechanics.

But.. A magician feels fooled when he does not know how it works.

A layperson is fooled when he knows what you just did is just impossible. If there is the slightest suspicion that something was not quite right they are not fooled.

 

[KINGOFHE4RTS]

So now REF4M is released. What did you guys think about it?

No offence to the theory11 team, im a huge fan of 99% of what you do. But isn´t this quit a suspicious handling of the TnR card? From what i can understand from the trailer the card can not be handed out. Isn´t this quit an important part in this plot? If you do something this incredible im sure someone would like to check it out.

You seem very close minded. The card can be handed out after the card is re-torn, from what I can tell. Use this to create your patter. Maybe you go back in time and restore the card, and then re-tear the card to create a moment of de ja vu.

Besides, your spectators have no idea for what to expect.

 

[yoourMOM]

Sure, i dont think they will be able to figure out the mechanics.

But.. A magician feels fooled when he does not know how it works.

A layperson is fooled when he knows what you just did is just impossible. If there is the slightest suspicion that something was not quite right they are not fooled.

Maybe he has a good explanation for the ripping part at the ant for the spectator? But otherwise you are completely right. Never thought about it this way

 

[JNGmagic]

You seem very close minded. The card can be handed out after the card is re-torn, from what I can tell. Use this to create your patter. Maybe you go back in time and restore the card, and then re-tear the card and creat a moment of de ja vu.

Besides, your spectators have no idea for what to expect.

i agree. with the right patter, it can fit well, and be amazing

 

[CaseyRudd]

You aren't clean when you show the card "completely restored", but you are officially clean after you rip it back up into pieces to have them try and solve a puzzle. Think of it like this. You present them with this effect, and in your patter you mention that this is one of the world's hardest puzzles to solve. Clearly it is impossible. Piece by piece you visually restore the card, then rip it up for them to try and solve on their own. It gives them something to remember YOU by. It's very strong, and I would highly recommend everyone give it a chance and pick it up. Definitely worth the practice.

 

[fridoliina]

No i am not close minded. But i have performed magic for all types of people for several years and during this period i have learnt quite a bit how laypeople think.

But i think that if there is just the sleightest suspition in their mind that something was not quite right, the effect has failed and i think that some people might ask themself if the card really was restored if they can´t check it out. They have to be sure about the conditions.

Like Simon Aronson said,

It is a big difference between they not knowing how you did something and them knowing what you did can not be done.

 

[StuartBeck]

If you have a small group, have each person initial a quadrant of the the card...now when you tear it into fourths at the end...each person gets their initialed piece...Would make for a good picture with them all touching the pieces together as well, gets them to connect as a group.

 

[jprace]

I think it looks great!

With that said, I remember Mr. Regal - who we can maybe credit for being the creator of the piece by piece restoration sequence - saying that there are two important steps of the plot, and neither can be left out. The first is the visual restoration. The second is giving the card to them as a souvenir right after the restoration occurs. No fiddling with the card (as in ripping it up) and no going back to the deck.

 

[fridoliina]

You aren't clean when you show the card "completely restored", but you are officially clean after you rip it back up into pieces to have them try and solve a puzzle. Think of it like this. You present them with this effect, and in your patter you mention that this is one of the world's hardest puzzles to solve. Clearly it is impossible. Piece by piece you visually restore the card, then rip it up for them to try and solve on their own. It gives them something to remember YOU by. It's very strong, and I would highly recommend everyone give it a chance and pick it up. Definitely worth the practice.

I think that this is a pretty bad presentation because it creates a I can do this and you cant situation in the spectators minds. And we do magic, not puzzles right?

You should read some of Darwin Ortiz books or one by John Carney where they talk about how we belive puzzles can be entertaining, but in the end just annoys the hell out of people.

 

[James Wise Magic]

At first I was a bit disappointed but then after a few seconds I realized there was nothing to be disappointed about. I'm sure the dvd teaches you EVERYTHING you need to know about giving the card out, spectator management and everything in between that you guys might be worried about. And if not, don't let the dvd be such a crutch, try to be creative in your own presentation and patter to pull it off.

Besides, we're all magicians here who probably know several torn and restored effects out there so of course we probably aren't going to be as fooled. but remember laymen don't know the secrets to all the torn and restored effects like we do, they don't, for the most part, don't know the moves and don't forget that they don't know what to expect. I'm sure this effect is a killer and I can't wait to buy it! =)

 

[CaseyRudd]

I think that this is a pretty bad presentation because it creates a I can do this and you cant situation in the spectators minds. And we do magic, not puzzles right?

You should read some of Darwin Ortiz books or one by John Carney where they talk about how we belive puzzles can be entertaining, but in the end just annoys the hell out of people.

This isn't the only way you can present this effect. I was just giving that as a very basic example. The sky is the limit with how many presentation ideas you can have for this effect. The people's reactions in the preview video to the effect show that they were definitely into the routine, even when he said "destroy the evidence of this ever occurring".

 

[fridoliina]

It is not that it won´t "fool" them because they will not know exactly how it works. BUT. will they be 100% sure that it really was restored? I think that it is important that they are 100% sure about the conditions if you are going to really convince them.

 

[icannotmakeapassword]

It is not that it won´t "fool" them because they will not know exactly how it works. BUT. will they be 100% sure that it really was restored? I think that it is important that they are 100% sure about the conditions if you are going to really convince them.

I think that, is the real question.

 

[JNGmagic]

i personally would used justin millers patter in "silver dream". when you start you can say that all magic tricks arn't real, they are in a dream. then when you restored the card you say "but this was only a dream, this never happened" and you give the ripped piece to them and say "you cannot do it in real life" can't wait to buy it though

 

[KatieKenner]

First Hand

Hey All,

I haven't posted in quite some time, but this is something that I think you all should kind of know.

Blake and Calen spent a week at the Kenner's back in February. This is when Blake filmed this trick.

Chris and I took them to places all up and down the strip here in Las Vegas and blew the minds of people like Mac King, Carrot Top, Nathan Burton, the Magic Club here, Chris and Me among many others.

This is a brilliant, well thought out trick and presentation, it doesn't leave you annoyed... it leaves you impressed and in awe, like you experienced real magic.

Now I know a lot of you might know my attitude on magic and magicians (especially if you read my twitter)... So I think by me coming to share my experiences with watching this trick be done to so many people recently might actually mean something.

Anyway.

Have fun.

Love,

Katie

 

[magicman1170]

What i am about to say right now is 100 percent true. Take it as you will. 3 months ago i came up with the same restoration method as this for my own personal TnR. Now i see this on the website. And i see that he had a touch of a bit more finess than my handling. but the method is the exact same. And I did come up with this independently as i performed it at my magic shop messing around and at school. All in all i would not have sold it because it, while only using one card and no gimmicks, is lacking in the fact that u cannot hand it at the end in the restored state. My two cents.

 

[Justin.Morris]

This is like a two part version of Hoodwinked. That's excellent. I use Hoodwinked quite often for a quick impromptu t&r. It works very well and in real situations people just stare dumbfounded when you put the pieces in their hands. Adding a second year just makes it that much more effective and convincing.