What's new about Digital Dissolve?

T

trashmanf

Sep 1, 2007
1,005
3
well this just blows the hype right out. I made a post about how theory 11 copied other's work and claimed it as their own "revolutionary, underground magic" and a moderator immediately deleted it. He said it was because what I wrote was untrue, but now that it's been proven that it IS true, I wonder why my post was REALLY deleted?
 
Glenn West

Glenn West

Aug 31, 2007
467
1
Canada
Pathian said:
Actually, Steve has voiced his opinion on the cafe.
Click to expand...


Odd, i read a similar post that was made years back, with, clearly, no mention of DD, as it was years ago.

I did not see this post.

Mind you I had not seen much from Steve in a while now, which is why I was not surprised to not hear from him yet on this matter.
 
Glenn West

Glenn West

Aug 31, 2007
467
1
Canada
joshua barrett said:
others have ripped him off thats one reason you never hear from him. he told me he only sells to a list of people he compliled to stop the coping of his work
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had heard most of that, which was why I was surprised with his Downloadmagic site.

Mind you, I'm not complaining, it had one of the best card on [in] ceiling effects I've ever learnt.
 
W

warlock

Sep 1, 2007
56
0
41
Woodside, NY, USA
joshua barrett said:
ok guys ... this is the the last post i had on the cafe. forgive me if its hard to understand i spent alot of time tonight getting the facts. i talked to BJ on the phone and had some email correspondance with steve deuscheck.

ok guys iv had quite the long night. iv spend some hours tonight with a group of magicians here locally discussiong this. iv had some talk with steve via pm and email. iv spent a hour on the phone with bj beuno.

iv come up with some conclusion, and after alll of this im done with it. you have no idea the energy used to find out one thing. is the routine different?

the answer is yes.

do i think BJ should be able to sell the routine. yes

after finally getting the information i was always looking for i found these difference. DD is done at the finger tips using a new original switch showing hands empty of extra coins showing both sides of the coins and a visual transposition/change. only 2 real similarities exist based on my research of the routine. 1. both a c/s effect 2. same gaff

now my thoughts on the gaff matter is that permission was given to jamie schoolcraft to make these coins. to think that someone will only do ONE single routine with this gaff is a bit , i dunno... not reality? i am in no way questioning the creditbility of steve. i have mixed sources about the date of the coin but even bobo made mention of it for a sun moon effect, so even if steve marketed it first others thought of it before. im inclined to go on this patteren of thought as no one has questions karl's published routine with it ( that i do not have ) so even if steve thought of it before karl, it sets some precident with makeing routines using the gaff acceptable. if this is not a acceptable practice i beg those performming selling coin shell routines to find the orinator nad ask permission.

now to back my conclsuion on this after much thought, steve gave jamie permission to make and sell this gaff. jamie did just that, and someone sold a good routine using it. im sorry if such a arrangment is now regreted.

i can also say form talking to BJ he showed the routine and method to many people that every single one of you respects, if you want to know who ask BJ, he was very up front in saying that if you have a problem with this to ask him directly on T11 and he will address the issue.

i have more thoughts on this but im tired. im satisfied with the information given to me, and i hope everyone else is too. im sorry it was such a up and down road just for me to get a answer to one simple question when all i wanted to know was the difference. im not sure it was worth the time, but at least in my mind i know.
Click to expand...

this was said on the 2nd page of this thread by the thread poster after doing research and clearly stating that he was done. i'm guessing he changed his mind. why are you people still arguing about this??
 
J

joshua barrett

Aug 31, 2007
316
0
cincinnati ohio
warlock this was after i talked to BJ on the phone. in that call i gave him the benifit of believeing what he said. that was ebfore i got to see the origonal routine. it was bad judgment on my part to listen to him, but i want to beleive that people not as bad as they are. no one is augueing this any longer. i have come here and answered questions such as this.

adn to be frank, most of us that give half a crap are of the same accord on this, the only oppoistion iv heard is RL friends of BJ, and people who think they "wouldn't do somthing like that"
 
T

trashmanf

Sep 1, 2007
1,005
3
i have a question are ANY of the theory 11 one-trick DVD gimmicks original?

I mean,i'm sure the routines are slightly new like they have slightly different handlings or whatever, but are any of the gimmicks original?

I have heard the coins, the changing "sliding card", and the panic gimmick are ALL from many years back.
 
jimbowmanjr

jimbowmanjr

Sep 1, 2007
479
0
Philadelphia, PA
What is original about Panic? I am guessing it is just Aaron's handling of the gimmick that is new there.

Lee Asher's release is actually a re-release from his Thinking Out Loud booklet in DVD format. TOL is $12 by the way and you get 6 effects/sleights with it.

The 1-on-1 sessions....tricks/sleights from Kenner's book in video format.

All in all, a major letdown in my opinion given all the hype leading up to this site coming online.

--Jim
 
Glenn West

Glenn West

Aug 31, 2007
467
1
Canada
jimbowmanjr said:
What is original about Panic? I am guessing it is just Aaron's handling of the gimmick that is new there.

Lee Asher's release is actually a re-release from his Thinking Out Loud booklet in DVD format. TOL is $12 by the way and you get 6 effects/sleights with it.

The 1-on-1 sessions....tricks/sleights from Kenner's book in video format.

All in all, a major letdown in my opinion given all the hype leading up to this site coming online.

--Jim
Click to expand...
Um, where have you seen the gimmick before?

Ok, technically you could say it is a variation of a gimmick that Josh Jay popularized, however it is still very different in its design and its use. You could see the two side by side and they would look nothing alike.

I have not seen this gimmick before, nor an effect quite like Panic. Well, yes, there are plenty of vanishing decks, but still, nothing like Panic.

EDIT, I mixed up Fearson with Deusheck .

Infact,I did a few times i the thread, with the Download magic site reference.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
C

Chicken

Sep 24, 2007
417
1
I'm not sure on this, but I'm guessing Todd Lassen is selling the gaff because he was the the machinist for Bob Kohler's U3F, and Bob had permission from Steve Dushek.

-Chicken
 
W

word

Sep 2, 2007
69
0
I dont think anyone is trying to bury this.

joshua barrett said:
ok guys ... this is the the last post i had on the cafe. forgive me if its hard to understand i spent alot of time tonight getting the facts. i talked to BJ on the phone and had some email correspondance with steve deuscheck.

ok guys iv had quite the long night. iv spend some hours tonight with a group of magicians here locally discussiong this. iv had some talk with steve via pm and email. iv spent a hour on the phone with bj beuno.

iv come up with some conclusion, and after alll of this im done with it. you have no idea the energy used to find out one thing. is the routine different?

the answer is yes.

do i think BJ should be able to sell the routine. yes

after finally getting the information i was always looking for i found these difference. DD is done at the finger tips using a new original switch showing hands empty of extra coins showing both sides of the coins and a visual transposition/change. only 2 real similarities exist based on my research of the routine. 1. both a c/s effect 2. same gaff

now my thoughts on the gaff matter is that permission was given to jamie schoolcraft to make these coins. to think that someone will only do ONE single routine with this gaff is a bit , i dunno... not reality? i am in no way questioning the creditbility of steve. i have mixed sources about the date of the coin but even bobo made mention of it for a sun moon effect, so even if steve marketed it first others thought of it before. im inclined to go on this patteren of thought as no one has questions karl's published routine with it ( that i do not have ) so even if steve thought of it before karl, it sets some precident with makeing routines using the gaff acceptable. if this is not a acceptable practice i beg those performming selling coin shell routines to find the orinator nad ask permission.

now to back my conclsuion on this after much thought, steve gave jamie permission to make and sell this gaff. jamie did just that, and someone sold a good routine using it. im sorry if such a arrangment is now regreted.

i can also say form talking to BJ he showed the routine and method to many people that every single one of you respects, if you want to know who ask BJ, he was very up front in saying that if you have a problem with this to ask him directly on T11 and he will address the issue.

i have more thoughts on this but im tired. im satisfied with the information given to me, and i hope everyone else is too. im sorry it was such a up and down road just for me to get a answer to one simple question when all i wanted to know was the difference. im not sure it was worth the time, but at least in my mind i know.
Click to expand...
 
jimbowmanjr

jimbowmanjr

Sep 1, 2007
479
0
Philadelphia, PA
Here is a bit of an education on this entire matter from Marc DeSouza on the Cafe:

Hi All,

First, to JTW, I do not claim any authority on anything in magic, however, I know the history on this matter. Please pay attention to what you are about to read, because I do not intend to post on this issue again. You will not hear any rebuttal to these facts from Fulves, Elliott or Guitar, because to do so would be a lie. Steve Dusheck created the sliding shell in the mid-60's. He sold one of the first ones to J.G. Thompson. He gave Eddie Gibson of England the right to manufacture and market the idea with Steve's Slippery Sam routine in 1970. Gibson marketed it and the copyright date on the instructions is 1971. Bob Elliott bought a set and worked out his routine. Karl Fulves asked for permission to publish it, which he did in Pallbearer's Review. BTW, for BJ's information, that magazine did not exist in the 50's. Fulves claimed that the idea for the sliding shell was old, but when challenged on that fact, he later recanted and admitted that Dusheck created it.

Steve showed his routine to Don Alan. Pressley Guitar was there and freaked out over it. He bugged Steve for it and Steve not only showed him the gaff but explained exactly how to make it.

B.J. Bueno spoke to Steve Dusheck several years ago and wanted his permission to market his routine. Steve offered to sell him the gaffs wholesale "As long as he was not marketing it as a Copper/Silver Transposition". B.J. could not do that. He went to Todd Lassen to get the gaffs made, but Lassen did not have Steve's permission to do that. Jamie Schoolcraft asked Steve for permission to make the gaffs for customers. Steve gave him permission on the assumtion that it would be for guys who wanted a special version of the gaff. I don't believe that T11 told Jamie what they wanted the gaffs for, but I cannot attest to that fact for certain. All I know is that I was called by a mutual friend who said that "Jamie is sick over this and wants to talk to Steve to make things right".

I spoke to Steve Duscheck the other evening and he is sick over this whole fiasco. I feel the same way. I find it very distressing that several talented young men who I call friends would stoop to this level of thievery. I have had the pleasure of calling Steve Dusheck my friend for many years. He has helped me over the years in so many ways, not the least of which creating effects specifically for my repertoire. I consider him one of the five most creative men, if not in the entire history of magic, at least in the last 100 years. It is a pity that repeated activities such as this have caused him to retreat from magic. Everyone in our art will suffer for that, instead of being able to enjoy so many more fruits of his labors.

Marc DeSouza
Click to expand...

Hopefully this clears up many of the questions people have had and refutes a few claims that have been posted in this thread thus far. I don't know if Marc is even a member of these forums but I doubt he is going to comment on this again. Likewise I am done commenting and arguing on this as well as most of my questions have been answered.

--Jim
 
S

Sean [that's heavy...]

Sep 27, 2007
13
0
Wow! Thanks Mr. Jim! and Mr Desouza!

I'm not going to give my opinion, as i don't really know anything on this matter...

HOWEVER, I don't see any of the T11 homies arguing against this, so so far, i have to side against them...

x

P.S. Panic is original and Aaron Fisher is awesome.
 
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