Thanks for posting that Jim. I don't get on the Cafe much, and I would have hated to miss that. Can someone from the Theory 11 team please respond? The LAST thing we need is a repeat of what happened with Garcia's Life effect on the E forums!
What's new about Digital Dissolve?
- Thread starter joshua barrett
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Thanks for posting that Jim. I don't get on the Cafe much, and I would have hated to miss that. Can someone from the Theory 11 team please respond? The LAST thing we need is a repeat of what happened with Garcia's Life effect on the E forums!
what happened, people realized for the same amount of $$$, they could have got "folding money foolers" with lots more effects?
I have to ask because I just tried to log in to ellusionist for the first time in a while and found I was banned.... I LOL'd !
so yeah I sincerely doubt we are going to hear anything from Theory 11 about this. Because when I posted that all their "revolutionary, underground" hype was lies, and that ALL these effects are based on (or total copies) of existing gimmicks and routines, they deleted my post. If they were interested in actually addressing the issue they would respond rather than delete.
I have to ask because I just tried to log in to ellusionist for the first time in a while and found I was banned.... I LOL'd !
so yeah I sincerely doubt we are going to hear anything from Theory 11 about this. Because when I posted that all their "revolutionary, underground" hype was lies, and that ALL these effects are based on (or total copies) of existing gimmicks and routines, they deleted my post. If they were interested in actually addressing the issue they would respond rather than delete.
I don't really care if it's someone elses trick exactly or not. Theory11 was said to weed out tricks that didn't offer anything new, a source for hard hitting effects. If this is so similar to another trick available, then what is it doing here? What is the difference between Theory11 and any other store if it is selling remade videos of old tricks?
Well that's easy, the difference is the amount of hype and flashy looks (as opposed to substance)
for example the "moving pip" card isn't anything new , that you couldn't buy at many magic stores, but now it's DISTORTION and an incredible hard-hitting trick worth an entire DVD.
it's just to make some money off n00bs, I can hardly blame the guys for milking this cash cow they basically saw what ellusionist was doing and were like, "we need to get a piece of this action!!!"
*estimated time till post deletion : 15 seconds and counting... 14...
Not sure how I missed this question but I don't read these forums much anymore so I am just getting back to this now. I was genuinely asking if Panic was new but I realize it didn't come across that way looking back at it now. I thought I had seen someone mention that this wasn't a new gimmick but they could be totally wrong as I haven't been able to actually find it anywhere, which makes me even more wrong for repeating it.
I am sure whatever routine and handlings Aaron has come up with are original in this case as it appears to be the only effect that has not gotten bashed backwards and forwards up to this point. I have always had a deep respect for Aaron, I guess you could say I am slightly disappointed that he is associated with this company considering their track record thus far.
Peace and hair grease,
Jim
aarons gimmick is sorta new. there have been other versions but i will say that aarons take on is the best iv seen. its not totally original like many promises of the site would like one to think, but its hands down the best gimmicked vanishing deck iv seen.
Please respond
You might say I'm Steve Dusheck's biggest fan.
With all the information that's come to light recently I'm wondering why this topic fails to get a response from anyone in the Theory 11 crew, more specifically from BJ Bueno?
Steve has contributed so much to the art of magic for so many years, why weren't his wishes honored?
For the sake of those who missed it and to save everyone the trouble of searching the entire thread, I'll reprint what I feel is the most important part of the discussion, shared by Mark DeSouza:
"..B.J. Bueno spoke to Steve Dusheck several years ago and wanted his permission to market his routine. Steve offered to sell him the gaffs wholesale "As long as he was not marketing it as a Copper/Silver Transposition". B.J. could not do that. He went to Todd Lassen to get the gaffs made, but Lassen did not have Steve's permission to do that. Jamie Schoolcraft asked Steve for permission to make the gaffs for customers. Steve gave him permission on the assumtion that it would be for guys who wanted a special version of the gaff. I don't believe that T11 told Jamie what they wanted the gaffs for, but I cannot attest to that fact for certain. All I know is that I was called by a mutual friend who said that "Jamie is sick over this and wants to talk to Steve to make things right".
I spoke to Steve Duscheck the other evening and he is sick over this whole fiasco. I feel the same way. I find it very distressing that several talented young men who I call friends would stoop to this level of thievery. I have had the pleasure of calling Steve Dusheck my friend for many years. He has helped me over the years in so many ways, not the least of which creating effects specifically for my repertoire. I consider him one of the five most creative men, if not in the entire history of magic, at least in the last 100 years. It is a pity that repeated activities such as this have caused him to retreat from magic. Everyone in our art will suffer for that, instead of being able to enjoy so many more fruits of his labors.
Marc DeSouza"
This leaves me wondering how many of the Theory 11 guys were in on this?
C'mon guys, someone must care about the reputation of your new company or at least your individual reputations.
Please clear this up. There's been a lot of denial and now the truth has been revealed. It's time to acknowledge the truth yourselves. If you have no respect for someone like Dusheck, who will respect you?
If not for Dusheck's sake, do it for the young creators who will undoubtedly be discouraged from contributing lest the same thing happen to them. Respond for the many young people who consider you role models.
They joined Theory 11 hoping to be part of something that would advance the art of magic. They've contributed to your forums, they've given you their money. Now they have questions. They deserve answers.
Don't let them down.
You might say I'm Steve Dusheck's biggest fan.
With all the information that's come to light recently I'm wondering why this topic fails to get a response from anyone in the Theory 11 crew, more specifically from BJ Bueno?
Steve has contributed so much to the art of magic for so many years, why weren't his wishes honored?
For the sake of those who missed it and to save everyone the trouble of searching the entire thread, I'll reprint what I feel is the most important part of the discussion, shared by Mark DeSouza:
"..B.J. Bueno spoke to Steve Dusheck several years ago and wanted his permission to market his routine. Steve offered to sell him the gaffs wholesale "As long as he was not marketing it as a Copper/Silver Transposition". B.J. could not do that. He went to Todd Lassen to get the gaffs made, but Lassen did not have Steve's permission to do that. Jamie Schoolcraft asked Steve for permission to make the gaffs for customers. Steve gave him permission on the assumtion that it would be for guys who wanted a special version of the gaff. I don't believe that T11 told Jamie what they wanted the gaffs for, but I cannot attest to that fact for certain. All I know is that I was called by a mutual friend who said that "Jamie is sick over this and wants to talk to Steve to make things right".
I spoke to Steve Duscheck the other evening and he is sick over this whole fiasco. I feel the same way. I find it very distressing that several talented young men who I call friends would stoop to this level of thievery. I have had the pleasure of calling Steve Dusheck my friend for many years. He has helped me over the years in so many ways, not the least of which creating effects specifically for my repertoire. I consider him one of the five most creative men, if not in the entire history of magic, at least in the last 100 years. It is a pity that repeated activities such as this have caused him to retreat from magic. Everyone in our art will suffer for that, instead of being able to enjoy so many more fruits of his labors.
Marc DeSouza"
This leaves me wondering how many of the Theory 11 guys were in on this?
C'mon guys, someone must care about the reputation of your new company or at least your individual reputations.
Please clear this up. There's been a lot of denial and now the truth has been revealed. It's time to acknowledge the truth yourselves. If you have no respect for someone like Dusheck, who will respect you?
If not for Dusheck's sake, do it for the young creators who will undoubtedly be discouraged from contributing lest the same thing happen to them. Respond for the many young people who consider you role models.
They joined Theory 11 hoping to be part of something that would advance the art of magic. They've contributed to your forums, they've given you their money. Now they have questions. They deserve answers.
Don't let them down.
Not to stir the pot on this issue (Which, I believe needs to be stirred.. but anyway)... DD is move for move identical to the third phase of Lance Delong's C/S routine "As Slick Trick" on his "Warning: Sleight Of Hand Required Volume II" DVD. Which is at www.kozmomagic.com
Sharp
Sharp
They have a product called Heiny 500, wherein five $1 bills transform into five $100 dollar bills.
For some reason, I'm doubting that Heiny 500 is an original product, which makes me question their business ethics.
In order to be let down people would actually have to care in the first place. It is my impression that most people around here and in these forums could honestly care less for the most part. Doesn't affect them and they get a cheap effect that includes a gaff coin. Turning a blind eye works great until it ultimately ends up hitting home at some stage of your life. Karma has a wonderful way of coming back around to even things up sooner or later, my only hope is that it is sooner rather than later.
I think the time frame for being let down was weeks ago at this point. I actually came to the decision back then that I was never going to buy anything here regardless of how appealing it is or how much hype it gets because of how things were handled with this one individual effect. Everyone involved with this project and those who are affiliated with the company are guilty in their silence by not stepping out to make some statement. Goodbye.
--Jim
Well that's easy, the difference is the amount of hype and flashy looks (as opposed to substance)
for example the "moving pip" card isn't anything new , that you couldn't buy at many magic stores, but now it's DISTORTION and an incredible hard-hitting trick worth an entire DVD.
they basically saw what ellusionist was doing and were like, "we need to get a piece of this action!!!"
*estimated time till post deletion : 15 seconds and counting... 14...
It's about time people started to realize this, it was almost obvious right out of the box.... boooooooo
I've seen Heiny 500 in person (performed by Karl Himself) and it is, he admits, a new handling of the Hundy 500. For some reason he feels it important to market a new handling using the same gimmick, false count... everything. Kinda odd to me...
Although Lance Delong was out waaay before T11. And I trust Justin Miller and his ethics, he would not work with Kozmo on his own projects if they were unethical. I have met Justin and know what a person he really is and thats the only reason I trust Kozmo.
I can't say i'm surprised by the whole issue... but I am let down. "Great Minds" like Chris Kenner, the Bucks, W:H and such getting involved in such a thing... tisk tisk tisk...
Sharp
You are right on two accounts, one your are entitle to your own opinion, and two you will be bashed for it. If you going to give your opinion make sure you at least have your facts straight. B.J has given his side of the story if fact he did it twice in this thread and Steve through the Cafe gave his side so both sides have been accounted for as well as numerous third parties have jumped in as well. Joshua has done a great job in trying to sort it all out and came to a pretty good conclusion based on this information, I suggest you go back and read it. I do agree with you in one fact that this incident will not stop me from making purchases from T11 in the future cause they do have some top notch guys here but I will do it with more caution. One last thing and the real reason I responded to your message was your statement "So, all in all, whether or not Theory 11 stole that effect from another magician is none of my business, and I couldn't really care if they did or not" This statement really annoyed the hell out of me and it shows what type of character you have. Its never ok.....never to steal someone else work, to take money out of that persons pocket and put it into yours. Your a magician its your business to support/reward the works of innovated, creative magicians whether you buy their stuff or not, not reward the people who steal it, What we are left with is the innovated/creative people who stop creating because of being rip off so much, now how is that good for magic? Think what you want about this whole DD issue, but I implore you to reconsider you statement about supporting anybody, any store that makes a habit out of stealing/ripping off another persons work.
You are right.
It isn't right to steal someone's work and profit off of it.
I deleted the post, and apologize to any who may have been offended.
Guys,
Felt the need to chime in on this now and let you guys know the scoop. Over the past month there have been some concerns raised about crediting in Digital Dissolve. From the moment that these concerns were raised, we began to look into the matter further.
Our entire team (BJ Bueno, Lee Asher, Jamie Schoolcraft, Aaron Fisher, Chris Kenner, Dan White, Wayne Houchin, Dana Hocking, Aaron Shields, and myself) have spent the last full month researching the matter further and working towards resolving the issue, as we wanted to have all the facts in hand before responding, especially in a public forum.
theory11 is a site and community created by and for the artists. We have the utmost focus on ethics and respect within our community and we can assure you that we are doing everything within our power to resolve the issue; this has included weeks of additional research into the matter by our entire team on every level.
With that said, we understand that our silence on the forums over the past few weeks may have led some to believe that we have done nothing and just don't care-- absolutely nothing could be further from the truth. Our lack of response on the public forums should in no way be misconstrued as a lack of response overall. We never did become involved in the back and forth on the forums regarding the issue, and that decision was made intentionally as we all wanted to seek and resolve the issue directly, amicably, and respectfully before discussing the matter in an open, public forum.
Many of you know and are familiar with individuals within our team, and therefore know how seriously we take ethics within our art. We are working to resolve the issue with all artists involved as we speak, and we will let you know as soon as more information becomes available. Thanks for your patience and understanding.
Felt the need to chime in on this now and let you guys know the scoop. Over the past month there have been some concerns raised about crediting in Digital Dissolve. From the moment that these concerns were raised, we began to look into the matter further.
Our entire team (BJ Bueno, Lee Asher, Jamie Schoolcraft, Aaron Fisher, Chris Kenner, Dan White, Wayne Houchin, Dana Hocking, Aaron Shields, and myself) have spent the last full month researching the matter further and working towards resolving the issue, as we wanted to have all the facts in hand before responding, especially in a public forum.
theory11 is a site and community created by and for the artists. We have the utmost focus on ethics and respect within our community and we can assure you that we are doing everything within our power to resolve the issue; this has included weeks of additional research into the matter by our entire team on every level.
With that said, we understand that our silence on the forums over the past few weeks may have led some to believe that we have done nothing and just don't care-- absolutely nothing could be further from the truth. Our lack of response on the public forums should in no way be misconstrued as a lack of response overall. We never did become involved in the back and forth on the forums regarding the issue, and that decision was made intentionally as we all wanted to seek and resolve the issue directly, amicably, and respectfully before discussing the matter in an open, public forum.
Many of you know and are familiar with individuals within our team, and therefore know how seriously we take ethics within our art. We are working to resolve the issue with all artists involved as we speak, and we will let you know as soon as more information becomes available. Thanks for your patience and understanding.
hmm.. 10 people and one full month plus all the time you hopefully spent researching before you released the product and you still haven't discovered anything?
I might be missing something but from what I can see, that "official" response says just about nothing more than you guys realizing you might actually be wrong, and since you're openly admitting that, I'm confused as to why the product is still for sale while this "research" is taking place?
Shouldn't you wait with selling it until you're absolutely sure you're actually allowed?
You had no problem withdrawing a bunch of playing cards worth alot of money (if that's true, lets say it is) but you can't withdraw this which should be alot more important, considering how much you guys care about ethics...
I might be missing something but from what I can see, that "official" response says just about nothing more than you guys realizing you might actually be wrong, and since you're openly admitting that, I'm confused as to why the product is still for sale while this "research" is taking place?
Shouldn't you wait with selling it until you're absolutely sure you're actually allowed?
You had no problem withdrawing a bunch of playing cards worth alot of money (if that's true, lets say it is) but you can't withdraw this which should be alot more important, considering how much you guys care about ethics...