Exposure : Why

[Johnlawl]

Because, they realize that they are to scared to perform on the streets and they are mad at themselves for wasting their money. The guys who reaveal might have not even bought the trick. It maybe THEIR explanation of it.

They is the people who reaveal. I don't know if that should be a PS.

 

[Danomite]

I agree. The public library has always been the main source for those who honestly want to learn magic. Most people who post tuturials on the net are young kids who have no knowledge of magic theory. This is because most magic tuturials you can buy don't talk about it. All they do is show how a trick is done. Sites like these have to take some of the blame because of the lack of education they provide about magic, its history, and its theory. I also agree that most of the people who reveal magic for free on the net are what I like to deem as uneducated hobbyists looking for recognition. Exposure has been around as long as magic has been around. The problem today is the many people who are profiting off of selling DVD downloadable tuturials. Almost every magician feels it necesary to sell their tricks to the public rather than keeping them in the confines of the magic circle. When they do this they begin the problem. I originally thought this site would focus more on Theory than it actually does. When will we ever learn?

 

[CDarklock]

Almost every magician feels it necesary to sell their tricks to the public rather than keeping them in the confines of the magic circle. When they do this they begin the problem.

I don't entirely agree. I think the problem begins when you throw the floodgates wide open and let any idiot with a credit card have any trick they want from your DVD series. Sure, you can't have that until you have tricks on DVD, but it's not the trick DVDs themselves that are the problem... it's the lack of gatekeeping.

I think we also have a significant problem that most of our core references are books written half a century ago, but the modern youth simply doesn't have the same demeanor as they did just twenty or thirty years ago. These works are simply inscrutable, so they're left on the sidelines while more modern works - works that largely define tricks, not mechanisms and philosophies - fill the novice's library.

I think there needs to be some significant effort from the magical community to make the basics available in modern format, as well as some gatekeeping to keep the more advanced tricks out of the hands of the beginner. But I'm really not sure how we can institute some kind of standard mechanism for identifying a magician's skill level and qualifications to buy specific tricks.

I originally thought this site would focus more on Theory than it actually does. When will we ever learn?

I'm massively impressed by the one-on-one videos. They're inexpensive, easily viewable on any computer platform, not encumbered by DRM, and downloadable for archival. That's the future of media distribution. And with a new one-on-one coming out every Friday (starting last week), I think we're about to see a lot more theory coming out.

 

[Danomite]

I think the problem begins when you throw the floodgates wide open and let any idiot with a credit card have any trick they want from your DVD series. Sure, you can't have that until you have tricks on DVD, but it's not the trick DVDs themselves that are the problem... it's the lack of gatekeeping.

My point exactly!

Like I said early, exposure has been around as long as magic has. The reality is that this problem will never go away until certain laws are changed. I'm not holding my breath for changes to the law though. We as magicians need to become smarter than the "idiots with credit cards". Rather than playing on their ignorance, let's start performing to their intellect. Part of our job as magicians is keeping the magic alive. By this I mean, we need to constantly be using our creativety to come up with our own variations, idea's, and tricks.
This doesn't mean I entirely blame those who produce magic DVD's, but I can't entirely blame those who reveal secrets on Youtube either.

I have faced several people who knew how a trick was done, but rather taking it personal or as defeat, I use it to grow. I work on a new way to present and perform the trick. Sometimes in the process I come up with a whole new trick.

 

[CDarklock]

The reality is that this problem will never go away until certain laws are changed.

There's actually no sensible way the law can be changed to fix this.

Part of our job as magicians is keeping the magic alive. By this I mean, we need to constantly be using our creativety to come up with our own variations, idea's, and tricks.

Exactly - and then exposure becomes pointless. But another part of our job as magicians is to encourage others to become magicians. If we don't train the next generation of magicians, there won't be one.

It's something of a paradox. The current generation can only exist if we keep the secret; the next generation can only exist if we reveal it.

 

[Sergey]

It's something of a paradox. The current generation can only exist if we keep the secret; the next generation can only exist if we reveal it.

But we are not keeping it a secret, the people who want to learn would learn whether there are youtube tutorials or there aren't. They can just go to the library for crying out loud, or buying Wilson's Complete Course in Magic that will last them years, if they have financial problems.

WE don't want the next generation (It hink that includes me since I'm pretty young) to be consisted of magicians who are not as devoted. MAgic is a tricky thing, if someone gets into magic but then quits, there is a fully armed heckler right there.

 

[CDarklock]

But we are not keeping it a secret

Then what, exactly, is exposure? If it's not a secret, there's nothing to expose.

WE don't want the next generation (It hink that includes me since I'm pretty young) to be consisted of magicians who are not as devoted.

Why not? It's not as hard as it used to be. In 1978, if you were having trouble figuring out the trick in a book, you had to physically go out and find someone else who had the same book and figured out the trick. Today, you can come to any number of magic-focused message boards and ask thousands of people for help all at once. You don't need to be as devoted. And this is a good thing.

MAgic is a tricky thing, if someone gets into magic but then quits, there is a fully armed heckler right there.

I don't think that's true. I think the heckler comes from someone who looks up a trick on YouTube, then goes up to a magician and does the trick badly - so the magician rants for ten minutes about what a jerk he is to look tricks up on YouTube, and how he should never ever ever perform a trick unless he can do it perfectly, and it's people like him that are ruining magic. I think that guy ends up thinking magicians suck, and might make a point of ruining a magician's day at every opportunity.

 

[adjones]

There is no excuse for exposure. It is just some little kid craving for attention. It dosn't help anything or anyone. However, my opinion on exposure is that it has never personally hurt me during a performance. I have never once had a spectator call me out, saying they saw how to do it on YouTube... never.

 

[Danomite]

You all raise some valid points. But, has exposure really damaged the art of magic?

 

[adjones]

The only people it has hurt were the creators losing their sales from them. Think of it this way- the only people watching the videos are wannabe magicians trying to learn from crappy exposure videos... we are literally destroying ourselves from the inside.

 

[dummyisdumb]

The reason is, they're helpin' people out.

 

[Frehley]

In my opinion they are non magicians who just want to have more subscribers.

 

[adjones]

The reason is, they're helpin' people out.

No they're not...

 

[CDarklock]

The only people it has hurt were the creators losing their sales from them.

Why doesn't anyone ever turn that around?

Are the creators hurting the art of magic by selling the tricks in the first place?

What, exactly, does the art of magic gain from (say) Wayne Houchin getting $30 every time someone buys Control? I can see that the art has gained from Wayne inventing it, performing it, and teaching it. But what does the art gain from Wayne selling it? Why does $30 in Wayne's pocket make magic better?

 

[..:Z:..]

Why doesn't anyone ever turn that around?

Because they're afraid of challenge and ridicule from other fellow magicians.

Are the creators hurting the art of magic by selling the tricks in the first place?

Yes and No.

There are really two sides of the coin with this either way you look at.

What, exactly, does the art of magic gain from (say) Wayne Houchin getting $30 every time someone buys Control?

If my $30 is gonna go to the creation of a brand new 1-on-1/ DvD/ Deck/ Book every day, week, month or year, and these awesome forums, the I'd say there's a lot to gain from that.

I can see that the art has gained from Wayne inventing it, performing it, and teaching it. But what does the art gain from Wayne selling it? Why does $30 in Wayne's pocket make magic better?

"To help put food on the table, to pay for things, and blah, blah, blah."

Why is it when someone like W:H creates a DvD it's completely legit yet, when someone else, with a ton of experience on his belt, tries to do the same and everyone shuns that guy for it? (none of this is directed at anyone. It's just a question.)

I tried making a review over at the E forums for "In the Beginning, There were Coins," DvD (which I love) and everyone was telling me (BEFORE it go deleted), "Learn from a REAL professional like Mr. Ammar, ...etc," and all of that crap.

Just some thoughts...

..:Z:..

 

[Danomite]

What, exactly, does the art of magic gain from (say) Wayne Houchin getting $30 every time someone buys Control? I can see that the art has gained from Wayne inventing it, performing it, and teaching it. But what does the art gain from Wayne selling it? Why does $30 in Wayne's pocket make magic better?

Another valid point.
Who determines who has a right to sell tricks? I guess the answer is pretty simple. If I create a trick, I have all rights to sell it. But, if all I do is create new tricks to sell to the open market for anyone to obtain, am I benefiting the magic circle, or my own greed?

Some professional magicians have taken the liberty to sell tutorials on how to do tricks that they didn't invent. What gives them more right than the average joe-blow who does it for free?

I'm playing the Devil's advocate.

 

[..:Z:..]

Some professional magicians have taken the liberty to sell tutorials on how to do tricks that they didn't invent. What gives them more right than the average joe-blow who does it for free?

I'm playing the Devil's advocate.

That is exactly what I want to know.

..:Z:..

 

[dummyisdumb]

No they're not...

Why not? Are they hurting anyone.

 

[Frehley]

Why not? Are they hurting anyone.

Ppl who actualy bought that stuff and are affraid to perform it because any1 could see the explanation on youtube.
Ppl who sells those effect, who worked hard and tested the effects in every situation and does not get any cent with ppl watchin explanations for free.
Ppl who wants to buy new stuff but are affraid that it will be on the internet in any second.

For example...

 

[Danomite]

Ppl who actualy bought that stuff and are affraid to perform it because any1 could see the explanation on youtube.
Ppl who sells those effect, who worked hard and tested the effects in every situation and does not get any cent with ppl watchin explanations for free.
Ppl who wants to buy new stuff but are affraid that it will be on the internet in any second.

For example...

I have to somewhat disagree with all due respect. I think most performing magician's would agree that it hasn't effected them as much as some might think. I think, and I use the word, "think" that some of the people who complain are those who purchased the trick and then discovered it on Youtube for free. This can be upsetting to some I'm sure.

However, I am against exposure, but I have yet to hear any of the creator's voice their complaints about such conduct. I'm not saying it isn't a problem, but the problem has been around for decades. I have performed tricks where a spectator knew how it was done because their grandfather taught them it, or they seen the masked magician, or they read a book in the library, or a friend showed them, or they seen Criss Angel reveal it on his t.v show, and so on and so on. If there was no internet, those who wanted to know how a trick was done would find other means.

People used to believe wrestling was real, but once it was revealed that it wasn't real people didn't stop watching it or enjoying it. ( I use this as an example only)