Exposure : Why

[Tyler Johnson]

You're still stealing from the people whose effects you DIDN'T "like the method of."

Yes, but I never use them, so it isn't stealing.

Let me use the example of the CD.

I borrow a CD from someone and listen to it. Is that stealing? No.

If I copied the CD and the listened to it, that would be stealing.

If I bought every trick that I thought looked good due to false advertising, and tricks that sucked. I would lose lots of money. But I never use those tricks.

Tyler

 

[..:Z:..]

Yes, but I never use them, so it isn't stealing.

Let me use the example of the CD.

I borrow a CD from someone and listen to it. Is that stealing? No.

If I copied the CD and the listened to it, that would be stealing.

If I bought every trick that I thought looked good due to false advertising, and tricks that sucked. I would lose lots of money. But I never use those tricks.

Tyler

Agreed.

I think the stealing part happens when you actually go out and perform the effect. Just figuring it out or know the method to it isn't any harm done.

..:Z:..

 

[dummyisdumb]

Yes, but I never use them, so it isn't stealing.

Yeah, like when you rob a bank, if you don't use the money, it isn't stealing, right?

......right?

 

[AllanLuu]

That would be pretty pointless, in all honesty.

Guys, unless you've really in your life, NEVER:

Watched a movie on the internet.
Watch a TV show on the internet.
Listened to the music on the internet.
Downloaded Music/TV show/movie from the internet.
Borrowed friend's CD.
Download software of the internet, for free.

You shouldn't be talking. I honestly am getting irritated from hypocrites who see magic as something completely different from everything else, even though it isn't. People are really becoming way to overprotective about their "secrets." Really, sites that reveal tricks on them (you have to give it a scary label, 'exposure sites') are really just sites for fun, and they help other magicians I guess. It really isn't some sick, harmful thing. People are buying tricks and revealing them to help others, why do you guys constantly consider it some sort of unheard of sin.

To me, magic is a sacred art if you asked me. If you had every person knowing how magic tricks were done, then it wouldn't be magic, it would be rather stupid.

The factor of astonishment that you find when your performing to people is not something that should be tossed around like a CD.

CD, the artist is losing money, but consider the ammount of cd's people buy to the ammount of cd's that are being leant out. All in all, the artist is still making money one way or another.

Revealing secrets of a magic trick that is performed by profresionals, whether it is somthing as simple as the Balducci levitation or somthing more complex like a metamorphosis, if somone knows the secret, they won't want to watch.

 

[Tyler Johnson]

Yeah, like when you rob a bank, if you don't use the money, it isn't stealing, right?

......right?

Yeah, taking money is stealing, cause you're actually taking something, something psychical. You can't take a secret, therefore, it isn't stealing. I also don't use it if I don't buy it and don't like it. Thanks for proving my point.

If I took the CD from my friend, that would be stealing. If I just listen to it, that isn't stealing. If I copied it (which would be taking it basically) that would be stealing. If I liked it and then bought the CD, that definitely wouldn't be stealing.

If I took a trick and used it without buying it, that would be stealing. If I just know the method but never use it, it isn't stealing (it's like listening to the CD and just listening to it). If I know the method and I like it, then I buy it, that definitely isn't stealing.

Plain, simple, and easy.

Tyler

EDIT:

I have some questions, that people haven't answered yet because they know I'm right. Here they are, first paragraph are my first questions.

Don't you have conventions with magicians? Don't you have a magician buddy who you practice with? Don't you show each other things? How is that any different? You're exposing the methods right then and there, and by your definition you're stealing money from artists.

I have one more question. What if you watch the demo of an effect and it's so easy you figure it out? If you then do it because you figured it out, would that be stealing in your opinion? I'm sure several people that have replied to this topic have done that.

 

[dummyisdumb]

Yeah, taking money is stealing, cause you're actually taking something, something psychical. You can't take a secret, therefore, it isn't stealing. I also don't use it if I don't buy it and don't like it. Thanks for proving my point.

If I took the CD from my friend, that would be stealing. If I just listen to it, that isn't stealing. If I copied it (which would be taking it basically) that would be stealing. If I liked it and then bought the CD, that definitely wouldn't be stealing.

If I took a trick and used it without buying it, that would be stealing. If I just know the method but never use it, it isn't stealing. If I know the method and I like it, so then I buy it, that definitely isn't stealing.

Plain, simple, and easy.

Tyler

EDIT:

I have some questions, that people haven't answered yet because they know I'm right. Here they are, first paragraph are my first questions.

Don't you have conventions with magicians? Don't you have a magician buddy who you practice with? Don't you show each other things? How is that any different? You're exposing the methods right then and there, and by your definition you're stealing money from artists.

I have one more question. What if you watch the demo of an effect and it's so easy you figure it out? If you then do it because you figured it out, would that be stealing in your opinion? I'm sure several people that have replied to this topic have done that.

This is where you get specific, are you watching the dvd online, or just finding out the secret.

 

[Tyler Johnson]

This is where you get specific, are you watching the dvd online, or just finding out the secret.

Am I watching the DVD online? If you mean like some sort of illegal download site then no. I'm just finding out the secret by other magicians posting it on a secure forum only for magicians. If the trick is practical and something I'll use, I buy it. If it's not practical and not something I'll use, then what does it matter. Cause then I don't use it!

I mean, should I buy every single trick that artists have lied about and misrepresented that looks good? When I first started out in magic I bought "Ultimate Card Through Window" by Eric James. I spent $30 on that trick because the demo made it look good. That trick sucked! I've never ever used it. I actually threw the DVD away in disgust. $30 down the drain and I couldn't buy anything else for 3 months. Should I lose money that way all the time? On my budget I can't afford to do that. Should I just give up my magic then because I can't afford it? No. I mean, I've borrowed all the books at my library, read all sorts of card magic books. But I can't, after all that, just go around buying any trick that looks good to me. I have to know it's good and something I'll use. Peace!

Ty

 

[dummyisdumb]

Am I watching the DVD online? If you mean like some sort of illegal download site then no. I'm just finding out the secret by other magicians posting it on a secure forum only for magicians. If the trick is practical and something I'll use, I buy it. If it's not practical and not something I'll use, then what does it matter. Cause then I don't use it!

I mean, should I buy every single trick that artists have lied about and misrepresented that looks good? Should I lose money that way? On my budget I can't afford to do that. Should I just give up my magic then because I can't afford it? No. I mean, I've rented all the books at my library, read all sorts of card magic books. But I can't, after all that, just go around buying any trick that looks good to me. I have to know it's good and something I'll use. Peace!

Ty

Ohh.. makes a little more sense, I thought you were watching actual videos, then you could see where I'm coming from.

 

[Liam Carrie]

They are stupid.

You are Absolutely correct my friend, people don't realize how unbelieveably powerful this affects the magic worlds. Exposure is good and bad, it has 2 reasons, 1. it creates magicians, 2. it creates hecklers, exposers etc.
Even one simple trick opens thousands of possibilities. For example if you teach them a false- Transfer vanish, and then do an effect involving either the same or a different false- transfer, they will know exactly whats going on.

 

[Ampersan5340]

You are Absolutely correct my friend, people don't realize how unbelieveably powerful this affects the magic worlds. Exposure is good and bad, it has 2 reasons, 1. it creates magicians, 2. it creates hecklers, exposers etc.
Even one simple trick opens thousands of possibilities. For example if you teach them a false- Transfer vanish, and then do an effect involving either the same or a different false- transfer, they will know exactly whats going on.

Can a mod close this?

Anyway, exposure is bad. Why? It take's money out of the artist's pocket. Imagine if everyone went to some magic exposure site's and looked it up? The magician would make no money and would've wasted a lot of tiem and work.

I use to do it, I'm not going too lie. For example I downloaded the system, am I proud? No. I plan to purchase the system from dan and dave because I respect them.

All in all if you like magic exposure a tiny bit, then you must not respect the artist at all.

 

[Jakeh]

Ohh.. makes a little more sense, I thought you were watching actual videos, then you could see where I'm coming from.

That's exactly what I thought.

 

[..:Z:..]

Imagine if everyone went to some magic exposure site's and looked it up?

Imagine that, if.

Believe me, people have better things to do than to look up exposure.

As a mis-guided noob back in my first days in magic, I was completly WITH exposure. I learned from it! Then, I was completely AGAINST exposure. Now, I just see so many great opinions from many great people that I really can't decide whether it's bad or not.

However, debating about it is always fun!

In sight of all this, I know for fact that exposure WILL NOT EVER be a problem for magicians.

I'd hate to say this but, as, it sounds like I'm not contributing anything to the debate but, who cares? I'm sure we got better things to do with our magic. If it's not a problem, why bother?

However, I do pity the REAL victims of exposure. You know, the 15 year-old kid who buys a magic product from Ellusionist, (has the self-discipline and motivation to) trains himself, goes out to perform in school (filled with Richard Craniums, if you know what I mean) only to come back the next day to be exploited by another R.C.

These kids (well, most of them are, unfortunetly) are the REAL victims of exposure. I don't want to hear any of you guys acting so hurt by exposure when really, you've never been on the mean-end of the silent floating exposure-stick.

..:Z:..

 

[Tyler Johnson]

However, I do pity the REAL victims of exposure. You know, the 15 year-old kid who buys a magic product from Ellusionist, (has the self-discipline and motivation to) trains himself, goes out to perform in school (filled with Richard Craniums, if you know what I mean) only to come back the next day to be exploited by another R.C.

..:Z:..

Actually, exposure needs to save kids from Ellusionist and all their expensive products. They take old magic, repackage it as their own, and sell it over priced when you could just get the trick from an old magic book for $5. And they never credit the original creator. It's happened lots of times.

That's what I use the exposure site for. Basically I'm reading reviews of tricks that reveal the method. I DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANYTHING. That is against the law, because it's copyright violation, and is something I will never do. So my answer to the whole thing is...

...downloading DVD's online is bad. Belonging to a exposure site just for MAGICIANS isn't. The exposure site I'm a part of, you have to know some simple magic to sign-up for it. People go through a screening process. You answer some magic questions, if you get them all right you can register. But you can't view the board until you post an introduction and talk about your philosophy of magic and so forth. So the exposure site is only open to magicians.

Imagine if everyone went to some magic exposure site's and looked it up?

Yeah, imagine if all the crappy tricks that artists lie about and try to sell weren't out there anymore. Then we sure would have a lot of good magic, instead of having to sort through a bunch of crap. If magicians did what I do when it comes to how I use the exposure site, magic would be a lot better off. Dan Army, Eric James, all those kinds of guys, wouldn't make money off the poor 15 year old kid who doesn't have a lot of money to fund his magic.

Exposure sites are like guns, it depends on how you use them. If you use them to steal the effects from artists, it's bad. If you use it for good, like I do, then exposure sites are good. There are good parts and bad parts. Anyway, peace!

Tyler