Exposure : Why

Jan 6, 2008
355
0
55
Seattle
www.darklock.com
Are they hurting anyone.

That's a good question.

Does it hurt a magician if one of his tricks is exposed?

I would say no. I would say, from my experience, that performance is constantly a dilemma of how much material you can fit into it. There are always more tricks than you can do, and even if the audience knows how a particular trick is done, sometimes the effect is still great.

Look at Daniel Madison's Wrath. That effect kicks ass. It's not how it's done that kills, it's the whole burned card thing. Even if I knew how he did it, I'd still be amazed watching him, because he's so good. Look at Dan Buck performing Subway; I do know how that one's done, and it's still fantastic.

What's becoming clear to me is that while the magician who invented a trick isn't particularly damaged by its exposure, and neither is the expert practitioner who performs it flawlessly, the exposure does harm someone.

It harms the lazy magician.

You know the kind I mean. The magician who doesn't have his sleights flawless. The magician who relies on audience stupidity to bluff his way through the performance, because he can't fool an informed audience. The magician who can't perform the trick if you watch his hands the whole time, because he's just too clumsy.

Where it goes beyond this is that all of us, being informed, and seeing the amazing performances of the Buck brothers, and Daniel Madison, and Wayne Houchin, and Reza... you can fill in your own favorites here... have this fundamental fear that since we're not that good, we're every bit as bad as the lazy ones.

And that's why we need to go out and socialise with other magicians. I've been sitting in here watching the videos and reading the posts and thinking "man, I really suck". Then I went to my local magic club, and found myself the best card worker there. My confidence is through the roof right now. I'm hoping my Wynns are in the mail, because tomorrow morning I'm going to perform some impromptu stuff at a cafe, and I'd rather not do it with my Vipers. But if I have to, I will.

The concern and anger over exposure doesn't really come from concern about whether trick creators are credited, or whether the art itself is protected. It comes from a personal sense of inadequacy. And what we need to combat that is more videos that suck, so the average competent card manipulator can see where he really stands... instead of just thinking he's no good because he can't do what De'Vo vom Schattenreich does.

After all, no matter how many people I see doing a bad Hermann shift, I'm still impressed as hell when I see a smoothly executed one. I respect the skill, not the secret. "How did you do that" doesn't always mean "I don't know how you do that"; sometimes it means "I wish I could do that".
 
Jan 17, 2008
32
0
Sask, Canada
Hi CDarklock,

Very well put!

That has to be the best explanation I have ever heard in regards to exposure.


p.s
Some people don't realize that when they post themselves performing a magic trick on Youtube, other links relating to the trick will appear in the right hand corner. Some of those links will be by those who reveal the secret. I for one never post my performances on Youtube partially for that reason.
 
Sep 3, 2007
2,562
0
Europe
It only links to other videos relating to the effect if you put the name of the effect in the Tags. That's why I always put random tags like "blah" or "lajdfaskgja" as the tags. That way no exposure videos will come up.
 
Oct 24, 2007
314
0
Okay, admittance time.

Two years ago, when I started out in magic, I joined a magic exposure site (because I didn't know better). This was a good magic exposure site, no 8-10 year old kids, actually 20-40 year old practicing magicians.

Now, did I use it to just learn tricks? In all truthfulness, no. I would see how a method of a trick was done, then I would buy the effect. Why did I do this? Because I only get, with my budget, $10 to spend on magic a month. The rest of the money has to go to college and everything else in my life. So, how did the exposure site help me? Because it kept me from buy crap, since I knew the method, then I knew I would use it because it was practical and something I liked. So I would save up my money and buy the effect.

That's how it was good for me. But for people that just use it to learn a trick and not buy it, I FROWN UPON THEM. I always give the artists credit and give them money if I like their trick and if it's something good. ;)

Peace!

Tyler
 
Aug 31, 2007
1,016
0
Okay, admittance time.

Two years ago, when I started out in magic, I joined a magic exposure site (because I didn't know better). This was a good magic exposure site, no 8-10 year old kids, actually 20-40 year old practicing magicians.

Now, did I use it to just learn tricks? In all truthfulness, no. I would see how a method of a trick was done, then I would buy the effect. Why did I do this? Because I only get, with my budget, $10 to spend on magic a month. The rest of the money has to go to college and everything else in my life. So, how did the exposure site help me? Because it kept me from buy crap, since I knew the method, then I knew I would use it because it was practical and something I liked. So I would save up my money and buy the effect.

That's how it was good for me. But for people that just use it to learn a trick and not buy it, I FROWN UPON THEM. I always give the artists credit and give them money if I like their trick and if it's something good. ;)

Peace!

Tyler

That would be pretty pointless, in all honesty.

Guys, unless you've really in your life, NEVER:

Watched a movie on the internet.
Watch a TV show on the internet.
Listened to the music on the internet.
Downloaded Music/TV show/movie from the internet.
Borrowed friend's CD.
Download software of the internet, for free.

You shouldn't be talking. I honestly am getting irritated from hypocrites who see magic as something completely different from everything else, even though it isn't. People are really becoming way to overprotective about their "secrets." Really, sites that reveal tricks on them (you have to give it a scary label, 'exposure sites') are really just sites for fun, and they help other magicians I guess. It really isn't some sick, harmful thing. People are buying tricks and revealing them to help others, why do you guys constantly consider it some sort of unheard of sin.
 
Jan 27, 2008
202
0
You shouldn't be talking. I honestly am getting irritated from hypocrites who see magic as something completely different from everything else, even though it isn't.

Hyprocites? There are not a lot of hypocritcal magicians out there, ya' know. I don't know who YOU are regarding.

I do think people blow this out of proportions, though.

People are really becoming way to overprotective about their "secrets."

Agreed. I don't know why magicians are so worried about exposure. However, I'd be worried about exposure if my repatoire was made entirely of Ellusionist-only performance-material :)

Really, sites that reveal tricks on them (you have to give it a scary label, 'exposure sites')....

Scary label? What would you call it?

are really just sites for fun, ....

Yah! A ton of fun!!! You know what's also really fun? Having someone at school watching your performance, goes on the YouTube, figures out the secret, comes back next day, and.... Wait... Can you guess? EXPLOIT YOU.

That's a ton of fun. :p

and they help other magicians I guess??????.

Wait, your gonna say EXPOSURE helps other magicians without giving reason? Your gonna "guess" that it helps us?

It really isn't some sick, harmful thing.

Of course not. YOU are blowing things out of proportions now.

People are buying tricks and revealing them to help others, why do you guys constantly consider it some sort of unheard of sin.

Have you read ANY of the posts yet?

Comments in Cyan.

..:Z:..
 
Aug 31, 2007
1,016
0
You sir, are the one who's blowing my comments WAY out of proportion. I ain't so good at putting words in writing I must admit, but really, you just find like the little things that I say wrong.

But hopefully, besides all that smart-ass in your brain, hopefully you found out what I'm trying to say. Which is: That really, the reason for exposure is to help others, in a sense.

There are tons of self help websites, where people go through "hardships" to get information for others to help them. And good job at making me look like a retard by completely not including the tidbit above the first sentence talking bout hypocrites. That would make it a little easier.

And no, I honestly didn't read the posts in this topic. Happy?
 
Jan 27, 2008
202
0
You sir, are the one who's blowing my comments WAY out of proportion.

How?

I ain't so good at putting words in writing I must admit, but really, you just find like the little things that I say wrong.

I try to interpret WHAT the speaker is saying, not HOW WELL the speaker says it.

But hopefully, besides all that smart-ass in your brain,

Hey, what did I do to deserve that? :(

hopefully you found out what I'm trying to say. Which is: That really, the reason for exposure is to help others, in a sense.

Okay... Mind telling me how EXPOSURE is helping us "in a sense?"

There are tons of self help websites, where people go through "hardships" to get information for others to help them.

Where's the "hardships" in making a 1 minute video exposing an effect to everyone on YouTube?

And good job at making me look like a retard...

I wasn't trying to do that. Sorry.

by completely not including the tidbit above the first sentence talking bout hypocrites. That would make it a little easier.

Honestly, I was having a hard time trying to understand the first paragraph.

And no, I honestly didn't read the posts in this topic. Happy?

:p No.

Comments in Cyan.

..:Z:..
 
Aug 31, 2007
1,016
0
Why do you think I put hardships in quotes? Exposure helps, in a sense :p, because it helps spread magic, and it teaches magic. You are blowing things way out of proportion by getting every little thing I say that is flawed, and making me sound retarded.
 
Oct 24, 2007
314
0
dummyisdumb said:
That would be pretty pointless, in all honesty.

Why would that be pointless? I'm basically reviewing an effect to see if I like it. If I find out the method of a trick on the secrets forum (since you obviously don't like the term exposure site) and my opinion of the method is that it's crappy and unpractical, than I won't buy it. If it's good, I will!

dummyisdumb said:
Guys, unless you've really in your life, NEVER:

Watched a movie on the internet.
Watch a TV show on the internet.
Listened to the music on the internet.
Downloaded Music/TV show/movie from the internet.
Borrowed friend's CD.
Download software of the internet, for free.

I've never watched a movie on the internet, except for NetFlix which I paid for.
I've watched a TV show on the internet, FOX puts all their shows online.
I have listened to music on the internet, that's not a crime at all.
I haven't downloaded music/TV shows/movies, just downloaded a song from iTunes after I bought it.
I have borrowed a friends CD, nothing wrong with that.
I've never downloaded software off of the internet for free unless it was freeware.

dummyisdumb said:
You shouldn't be talking. I honestly am getting irritated from hypocrites who see magic as something completely different from everything else, even though it isn't. People are really becoming way to overprotective about their "secrets." Really, sites that reveal tricks on them (you have to give it a scary label, 'exposure sites') are really just sites for fun, and they help other magicians I guess. It really isn't some sick, harmful thing. People are buying tricks and revealing them to help others, why do you guys constantly consider it some sort of unheard of sin.

Okay, I'll state my opinion right now. I don't think exposure sites or secret sites or whatever you want to call them are bad. I'm actually still a part of the one I joined when I started out, did I tell everyone that? No. Because I was sure I would get scorned and frowned upon. Does that make me a bad magician? No, obviously not, considering Justin Miller likes my tricks. Do I steal tricks from artists by not buying their material if it's good? No. If it's good material, I'll buy it because I want the actual teaching, I want all the subtleties that are taught. I don't consider it some sort of unheard of sin, but other people around here do. So there's my opinion, there's where I'm at, go ahead people, bash me for it.

Peace!

Tyler
 
Aug 31, 2007
1,016
0
I've never watched a movie on the internet, except for NetFlix which I paid for.
I've watched a TV show on the internet, FOX puts all their shows online.
I have listened to music on the internet, that's not a crime at all.
I haven't downloaded music/TV shows/movies, just downloaded a song from iTunes after I bought it.
I have borrowed a friends CD, nothing wrong with that.
I've never downloaded software off of the internet for free unless it was freeware.

When you borrow a friends CD, do you just listen to it? Then jump up and buy it? Because, you are taking money from the people who created the music. And also, you are taking hundreds of dollars from the secrets you learn, that you don't buy.

And yeah, it's pointless, why would you pay money for something you already have?
 
So you your saying that you would look up a trick like Sinful on an exposure site and if you liked the method then you would buy the DVD but if you didn't like it then you wouldn't buy it.

That's pointless.


Luis
 
Oct 24, 2007
314
0
When you borrow a friends CD, do you just listen to it? Then jump up and buy it? Because, you are taking money from the people who created the music. And also, you are taking hundreds of dollars from the secrets you learn, that you don't buy.

And yeah, it's pointless, why would you pay money for something you already have?

Yes, I listen to my friends CDs. If I like a song on them then I buy it on iTunes. I like it better that way because I get the album artwork and all the artist information.

Actually, what I'm doing, as far as exposure sites, isn't pointless, it actually makes sense. What you're saying doesn't, and you aren't connecting the dots. It almost sounds as if what your saying is that if I learn the secret, then why buy it. If that's what you're saying, then I'll try to clear that up.

I use the site to view the methods of tricks. Once viewing the method, one of two things happen.

1. I think the method isn't good. The trick isn't practical. And because of that, I'll never use it. So now since I know the method is something I'll never use, I've saved myself a lot of money because I know not to buy it. Since it's cruddy, even though I know the secret, I don't use it.

2. If I think the method is cool. The trick is practical. Then because of that I will use it, I buy it. Why? Because you've seen some tutorials on youtube, they aren't ever complete. People don't teach all the subtleties, they don't talk about performance and teach on it. I buy the magicians work because I respect their work and I think it's good, and because they're the creator I want them to teach me all the subtleties and give me performance tips.

I see nothing wrong with this. Tricks that I don't like the method of, or it's something I won't use, I don't use even after I know the secret. If I like it and know I will use it, then I buy it and use it. Now I have to pose several questions towards magicians that hate exposure sites, I've always wondered how they will be answered.

Don't you have conventions with magicians? Don't you have a magician buddy who you practice with? Don't you show each other things? How is that any different? You're exposing the methods right then and there, and by your definition you're stealing money from artists.

I live in a very small area and no one in my town does magic. The closest magic shop is 3 hours away and the closest magician ring is 5. I use the exposure site to meet magicians around the world that also aren't part of a magicians ring. It's sort of our own magicians ring, just on the internet. If you oppose this, then that's silly. Should the magicians that don't have the privilege of a magic shop or magicians ring just go along by themselves or give up the art they love for good because they can't advance without help?

These are questions I don't think any magician can answer without condemning themselves. But, maybe someone can prove me wrong. Peace!

Tyler

P.S. I want to state, I DO NOT SUPPORT EXPOSURE VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE! I oppose magic secrets available to the public, just not to magicians.
 
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